I don't know how many of you guys actually make an effort to pick who to perform to. I believe i read it somewhere that one should always pick the right audience to perform.

Personally, i have came across kids who are scared of me after i made a coin vanish, and also those who "wow" like they've never seen magic before.

Do you pick your audiences? If so what characteristics do you look out for?

I do pick my audiences. I look out for people who are generally nice, polite and will not interfere you. Mostly, people who are good listeners. I avoid performing for my peers like my classmates and my aunties and uncles or any aunties and uncles.

Good listeners will sit with you and listen to you attentively and patiently and not interfere you of course. They will respond if they should and shut up when they know they should. I'm sure this is almost the ideal spectators we are looking for. People who sit quietly and watch your performances and respond when the magic happens and not interfere you going like :
"Wait! wait! Can I see the card?"
"Orhh! I know how you did it! You (the secret). Right?"
"Nooo... *snatch your cards or coins*" [I hate it when people snatch]

And of course they would not expose your flash or secret but instead may tell you secretly that you flashed or how you may not wanna do certain things. Generally, they will be nice spectators and should they be suspicious of anything they will still ask before they want to inspect anything, "Can I see your cards?" (with the apologetic face)



Why I avoid performing for my peers and aunties and uncles is because it can be discouraging performing for them.

My peers.
They may seem attentive to watch your performance but they will interfere. It will feel like you are walking out of danger but suddenly you are faced with another enemy, like in the movies. Should they see a flash or realise how its done, they will definitely annouce it. Obviously, I can tell that they arent very much nice spectators and sometimes I wonder if they really wanna see my tricks or looking for loopholes because they will tilt their head there and here to see. My very first trick in class was a blow cause some guy went "Orh! Nor! He (the secret). This kind of scam."

Aunties and uncles are not much different from my peers. Pretty much hecklers. They can go like "Aiyah! You saw the card when you shuffle lah! You young mah, very fast can glimpse the card". Or they can make things real difficult like suggesting somethings impossible and ask if you can do it and put you down when you say you can't or havent been able to master it.

Basically, I cluster them as not very good listeners? So far I can only find this description to match. Some friends I know who are very good listeners, I show them tricks and there was never a problem. Of course, when you perform to strangers you would have much problems sometimes I think, because the person don't know you unless the person is a real heckler in disguise.


Hard to tell the characteristics sometimes, but I think its possible to tell if someone is a good spectator by looking at their faces. I heard this from Lu Chen in an episode of Zhong Yi Da Ge Da and before that I find it quite true. As you go along, you can pretty much spot hecklers by their faces.


One more way to choose audiences, is to do a tiny trick first. If you get hecklers' feedback, you pretty much know the audience is a bad one.

p/s : I do not know if this is true but my hypothesis. Try to avoid the highly educated as they are more scientific people and will not believe in paranormal or magic. In turn they may become intellectual magic busters.


Hope my sharing helps.

No hecklers will have the word 'HECKLER!' on their foreheads so it is not that easy to tell. Most performing magicians will, by virtue of experience know which people to pick for interactive pieces of magic. Sometimes you do not have the luxury of picking your audience (i'm talking about paid performances). In that case, play to the people who are the 'good' audience.

If you can afford to pick your audience, do so with the knowledge of the type of magic that you do and which audiences will be more likely to respond. In my opinion, it is NOT true that you pick less educated people for audience (in fact, it sounds like you're trying to 'bluff' the less educated). Certain type of magic hits these people the hardest and if that's what you perform, then perform to them. (Eg. Instant solving of Rubik's Cube).

Just another example. I believe leolight also talked about this on the forum: certain psychological forces work only if your audiences can understand what you are talking about. If you perform with heavy dependance on these forces, then do not perform to foreign crowds who might not understand you.

Rather than pick the right crowd to perform to, I believe there is a different type of magic for different audience and crowd. I think the better magician will pick the RIGHT magic to perform to the crowd, rather than the other way around. Simply because most times, if it is a paid performance, you don't have a choice anyway.

Whilst I also do pick and choose my spectators, I do it so that my magic will have maximum impact. Not to avoid being heckled. The fact of the matter, is that real hecklers are very, very rare.

By heckler, I mean somebody who is really all out to spoil your performance.

I have only met 2 in my whole life.

If a person calls you out when you flash, he's not a heckler, or a 'bad listener', he is honest. This is because frankly, there is no reason a spectator should keep quiet when he sees a card sticking out of a poorly executed p**m, or a coin peeking out between your fingers.

It is very tempting to put the blame on 'I didn't choose the right person', when the actual reason for your screw up was 'My misdirection wasn't adequate' or 'My technique is not perfect'.

Be ruthlessly honest with yourself, and always, ALWAYS give your lay spectators the benefit of the doubt. You will be a better magician for it.

I will be the first to admit however, that the rules change when it comes to your friends and family. The best thing to do when in doubt, is simply to not perform for them. This is because of what Darwin Ortiz calls 'prestige' in his book 'Strong Magic'. Highly recommended. Their familiarity with you decreases your 'prestige' when you perform, and this is an important factor in determining how they perceive your magic. Performing with low prestige tends to cause unpleasant behavior like objects being snatched out of your hands etc. For a better discussion on prestige and what exactly it is, I refer you to Mr. Ortiz's wonderful book.

This would be the closest attitude to what I would term a 'real' heckler, however this is still not it. The key I have found to overcome this is to understand what led them to this line of reasoning.

Essentially what they are doing is expressing a certain cynicism born from their preconceived notions of magic. And yes, they do believe in magic. Its just that they box it up and limit it to whatever model they have in their minds. Think about it - These are the same aunties and uncles that believe the direction of the main door affects their luck!

For people like them, feats and experiences of the supernatural (i.e magic) can only lie within the boundaries of their set ideas. Hence when a 'normal' magician comes along they automatically dismiss it.

I have had some success with such spectators by saying that I DON'T perform magic. This is sleight of hand, and it is pure skill. By saying this, I put realistic limits on what I can do - hence they will rarely challenge me. (because they think they know already what I can and cannot do). More importantly, they might even be curious to see what I can do given these limitations.

And when I shatter these limitations in performance, the applause will be genuine.

Just some personal opinions:

1. In general, I prefer to perform to ladies as they usually get a better reaction. Some effects like kiss or rose effects don't work too well when I do it to guys. Wahahaha. Obviously.
2. I prefer to perform to a small group then to one person, as I find the spectators to be more vocal in their reactions. Maybe when one person goes "eh... the rest goes eh..."
3. If possible look out for the sanguine personality in the group.
4. If performing to a small group, I try to involve as many people as I can and then towards then climax, reselect the one with the best reactions.

I just realized my previous post does not address at all the topic starter's question about what characteristics to look for in potential spectators.

So here goes my answer:

As already mentioned, I choose spectators for maximum impact. For example, if I am to perform for a group seated at a table, I will be on the lookout for the person who generally likes to have fun, is outspoken, and is not sitting quietly when all his/her friends are all talking loudly. This person will be my primary spectator (i.e the one that chooses the card etc.) Chances are, this is the person in the group that can influences the rest, i.e when he/she is surprised, they will be surprised.

Essentially, if there is a social 'leader' of the group, I pick that one to be the primary spectator. In a group of females, it will probably be the one who exudes a confident vibe, and not necessarily the most attractive one. In a mixed group, it is normally a guy. Still, I try as much as possible to be observant to clues as to who would react the biggest. I don't always get it right though.

This is of course, not a hard and fast rule. For example, if he is loud and obnoxious, then caution is needed. (Also, I still need to address the fact that he is the 'alpha male'.)

I must confess I rarely use girls as primary spectators. However there is something to be said about the misdirection generated by attractive females - If you can make a pretty girl laugh, you create literally enough misdirection to steal killer whales. I can't do this consistently, so I don't depend on it. Also, if the girl thinks I'm trying to hit on her, she will become very self conscious and the magic tends to suffer.

Well. There are certain presentational styles which work better for those kind of spectators, which can kill the vibe for others.

With them, I often explain every step that I am doing so as to make it convincing and fair.

Cheeers.
Csjoshi

Hmm... this is quite a good question.

Many things have been mentioned by the rest so I would just go straight to the point.

1. Honestly, I would prefer females anytime. But if I'm performing for a mixed group, I would usually address the guys more, epecially the alpha male as mentioned by Matt. In a group of all males or females, there is usually no problem.

2. IMO, there is really no way to tell if a person is "heckler-material" by just looking at them. I just go ahead and do it. Many times, our assumptions are wrong. Of course, you will get some experience in reading people along the way which will minimize your chances of meeting them.

3. Regards to "flashing", I think it's our duty to polish our skills, so no excuse here. REgards to people pointing out plausible solutions to your tricks, it could be due to the construction of the effect (wow.. I read Designing Miracles too), which can be improved on too. I don't claim to be an expert on this area and I am still learning too.

4. It would be easy for us to say "oh, don't choose people who wears a bowtie and suspenders, they could be professors.." or "don't choose those wearing gold-rimmed glasses, they could be analytical type.." or "don't choose those who wears a Ace of Spade T-shirt, they could be magicians too!!!" I mean, there is no way we can tell unless we go ahead and perform. The thing we can do is only to perfect our craft.

5. Lastly, yes, avoid friends and elders... unless your prestige with them is very high.

Thanks for all the replies. They were very helpful. I think this is something we learn over experience. I learnt not to perform to most of my peers the hard way.

I was almost about to start a new thread but i decided to ask this over here. In your opinion, why is it important to look for your audiences? Personally i did not realise the importance only till i perform to the kids i scared away and then to another group who pestered me for more.

I don't know if its just for coins, but everytime after a bad audience, its quite discouraging.

luneymooney mentioned an interesting point, about picking the right performance than the right audience. Then again, i don't think i know enough tricks to satisfy everyone. :lol:

Besides ladies who give better reactions, another thing i realised is that indians give great reactions. Anyone find it true too?

You will have to see who are your audience and choose your trick that is for sure. For instance, when handling kids, certain tricks may be too profound for them to understand. If not what you could do is to modify your presentation in such a way that it is more fun and easier to understand which I believe would give the kids a better understanding of your tricks. And I personally think that what kids are looking for are more of fun.

It ok to have bad audience, you will definately feel discourage after that, natural. But you will slowly get used to it.

I performed for many people of different races and from different country before. I feel that they are all pretty much the same, its up to individual. Some people are amaze, just that they don't show it, but I know they are. People from the european or US side are fine, perhaps it is because of their culture?

Performing for kids is very different.

Just do very visual stuff with very simple plot (or no plot). Eg:

1. Sponge Balls
2. Coins Across
3. Colour Changes
4. Crazyman Handcuffs
5. PK (if you want)
6. IT
7. TT (vanishing of small items)

Beside the effects, you need to be able to connect with them. But that's something you got to work out yourself.

1. people who use their logic. - People who don't use their logic much will not feel amazed by your magic becuase the trick simply did not conflict with their logic and they will not be eager to find out why.

2. People who just listen and not interrupt or try to make you fail the magic

I like what ervz mentioned about "people who use their logic". I guess people who realised that magicians are the one that break the law of nature, will definitely be amazed.

But to add something to this thread. I personally think we shouldn't be choosy with our audience (no pun intended). The real challenge in magic is to amaze all, entertain and put a smile on their faces (getting a phone number is a bonus of course, haha) - that's where muscleaxl's "I think it's our duty to polish our skills" advice comes in.

Any beginner's magic book will tell you to 1) Practice 2) Practice 3) Practice and 4) Keep on Practicing. Sounds pretty lame but it's definitely the good for all magicians' pride.

However, if given a situation to choose I would say the best audience will be kids and people that enjoys good entertainment (it's both girls and guys). Girls generally make better listeners than guys, so if a trick requires a handful of instructions, ladies will be the best.

As for alpha males, don't worry too much about them. They're just jealous because they're afraid that someone else will steal their limelight. This is the perfect time to trying out and execute your gags on them. Belittle them if you must but do it gracefully not and start a fist fight haha.

Just to reinforce one fact, practice doesnt make perfect. Practice makes permanant. (I cant remember who gave this qoute) In any case i feel this is very true. So make sure u practice the correct way

With slightly more experience than before, I think its recommended that one approach groups with a good mix of both guys and girls. Nothing too big, but a crowd of 3 - 8 is still very managable.

Having said that, sometimes we can't be choosers, but I disagree that we should aim to entertain all. There are people who aren't worth your time. People who won't appreciate your efforts and end up either putting you down or generally affect your quality of life.

Wow agree with you, especially the bonus part :P

Its true we can't be choosy and only pick ladies to perform to, but i guess its no harm to perform to just girls once in awhile or at least a group with more girls. I use to do this when starting out; so as to avoid those males.

I guess we naturally or unknowingly we start to perform to group with more guys as we proceed on with life, when we have more experience and ways to handle them.

Lastly i guess just don't let anyone spoil your day will be the best :g:

Oh yah, you guys don't sleep at all? 4am can still reply :blink: I respect you guys~

Hi!

Actually, i think we kids know magic when we see magic. The problem is when the magician starts to talk.

That's when we are baffled.

But back to the subject, performing to relatives and friends are kind of frustrating.

1) My brothers see the instructional video and say 'I know ready'!=(

2) My uncles kind of destroy the magic by not following instructions. 0_o

3) My aunties are born in Singapore so they talk about stuff (aunty stuff) -_-

4) My friends cant be bothered. They'll either be doing work or playing duel master! *_*

Well just my point of view anyways.

Thanks

-blue_mode_1

Performing for people you know is always the starting out for magic.
But bear in mind they are the worse group of people to perform for and the hardest to attack. Because they know you and you know them, they tend to not respect you as a performer.
They don't switch from the friend/family mode to spectator mode.

I used to have this few friends who are willing to watch me do tricks in class but of course I know half the time they just want to figure out. I still fool them some times though.

The best people to practise and perform on are those people you don't know but risk is high.

I highly avoid performing to friends and families although they are the best chances to showcase. When you were starting out, it is okay for just a few tricks. But subsequently, take note of whether you have some family members or friends who actually enjoy magic. They actually want to watch magic and respect you as a performer. (The respect is VERY important) They are perhaps your next best option. Or find your best friend or a good friend. Someone you can trust but doesn't really have to be into magic.


"My brothers see the instructional video and say 'I know ready'!=("

You should keep your magic stuff away and in a 'secure' location. Never view instructional video with other people around. They are afterall for your eyes only.

Blue_modde_1,

Agreed but i still feel 'insecure' performing for kids as i really don't know i they understood what is going on.

The reason for your predicament is that u shouldnt be showing them the instructional video in the first place. People who aren't bothered are simply not worth your performance. I cant understand your eagerness in finding an audience to perform to but do not compromise! The magician's code isnt established for no reason. You do not reveal your secrets simply because these people dont deserve it and do not appreciate it. It's already a consolation they didnt deamean the art of magic

Wow well said :g:

Anyway blue_mode_1, try to watch it alone like on the desktop or laptop, or even those potable DVD player. so when people who walk pass to have a peak or such you can either alt tab away or pause it. (Will work only if your the eldest around i guess, although i am only child here) parents wise seek their understanding, for me or simply, watch when your home alone.

Friends wise, don't ask them to watch for the sick of watch? Unless their interested to watch in the first place :g: so as to get their fully attention and cooperation. :!!:

Hope it helps ;)

Hi!

Thanks for the advice.

I'm the second child and i kinda don't have a laptop or desktop. I use Mac.

And those portable DVD players and expensive.

I'm saving my money to get Bobo's modern coin magic.

I only have two DVD players one at the living room, one at a bedroom which my brothers can come and go.

I feel so frustrated when i'm trying to learn magic because it is a public area.

Any advice?

Thanks

-blue_mode_1

You have a really tight situation here, even though your TV sets are public i still do not think you should watch the instructional videos with everyone else behind. The least you could do is to minimise it. For example, do not watch it when your relatives are around.

Also, what makes you successful is your performance, not how well you do your sleights. So try to be as entertaining as possible and they wouldnt really be bothered where you learnt these stuff from.

Magic happens at the point when people cannot reconstruction the tricks. So the key here is this. Your relatives are able to link back to how you did the tricks and therefore is no longer magical to them. They cannot be fooled.

Well quite true Bryan. I guess the point is watch it when your home alone!!! :!!:

Anyway for mac wise i forgot their controls so i can't give much advice here, but there are keys to assist you swap the program that your running. Or maybe when you see someone coming, you open safari to cover the iTunes player.

Learn to be creative talk something to let them move away, if all else fail see if a friend of yours can lend you a laptop or a DVD player, or since your a mac user, ask your dad for a Macbook Pro 17" :P if he is willing to pay :!!:

Or even a Lan shop with a comfortable corner to watch, that is if all else fail.

Hope this helps :g:

Maybe you should go for books, then your brothers can't look at your stuff any more.

You could also try talking to your brothers about your privacy: Its not right looking at other people's stuff without their permission.

You could also influence them to learn magic, then you will have a partner :D

Just a small correction, don't influence them into learning magic if they are not interested.

Agree, if you influence them into learning magic if they are not interested, they may just leak out all the stuff and also practice half heartedly. :(

Well book is a good way to avoid such stuff, but if your not so much of a book person, just like me then don't bother. You may end up misinterpret it, :g: I still stick with DVDs. Just that you need to tell them you need abit of space for privacy and such. -_-

All in all what need to be said is said, all that's left is how your brain and body put it into action. :g: so good luck in doing so.

Hi!

Yeah. Thanks for the advice. I usually do that when i'm doing something in private.

Well, the problem is that the books are public property so when i buy my books, it'll be mine!

So sometimes my brother learns the trick then expose the tricks.

See you around!

-blue_mode_1

I don't quite get you. The books are yours so your brother should respect you and not touch your property.

Find a safe place to keep your books.

Yup, maybe hide it under your bed :P i use to hid stuff like report book that way or on top of of cabinets. Or places where they least expect? :g: :!!:

This has nothing to do with magic, but basic respect. Home is a place where i can feel safe to keep my belongings. If i had to stash my belongings away from my family members, yea, you may have upheld the spirit of magic but lost alot more than what you gained.

Hi!

Sorry if i was not so clear...


What i was trying to say was the magic book was from my father who then placed in the house library so

everyone can read.

And if i buy new books, they can't touch it!

Actually, I put it in my private box so no one can touch it. My brothers has a lot of basic respect don't worry.

See you around!

-blue_mode_1

Oh ok that good to hear i guess. ^_^

Practice hard i guess catch up with you later, back to studying :wacko:

I think in the course of performing, if you meet good audiences, take that as an encouragement and be heartened.

If you meet audiences who are hecklers, or who screw up your performances, then just move on with life. But remember to recall, and see if you have any learning lessons from that instant and improve from there.

It's not the end of the world if you meet the second group of people right?

On hindsight, performing for strangers or people whom you dun know that well, is the most ideal scenario