Firstly, i have to apologize that my topic title may not be exactly what im asking for.

I have been getting quite a bit of coin magic resources lately. Generally i don't prefer books as i can't guage how good im or how good the effect could be by looking at the pictures. Even as many kept telling me how much real secrets are in it, i have only managed to bring myself to get the one an only, Expert Coin Magic Book.

Other than that, the rest are all Dvds.

1) I had been wondering if the better coin workers out there actually prefer books than dvds. Do let me know your preferences.

2) As i mentioned how much i adore DVDs, i was wondering if anyone can recommend a few good ones. Although what i think contributes to a good dvd may not be what you see as a good one, so im going to list down my opinion on a few.

a) Revolutionary Coin magic - Jay Sankey

Yes, i think there might be a few good tricks here like Mr. Clean or some techniques that's quite practical. But i don't quite like how he handles his coins and since im not impressed by neither his presentation nor his techniques, i did not get anything out of this one.

Another reason is because, alot are included, but not enough details are given in the more advance techniques. Just my opinion.

B) Greg Wilson In Action 1-3

Quite a few routines here which relies heavily on misdirection where people don't even notice if the coin already on their shoulders or in their hands. Im not bold enough to attempt the moves in this, but i may try it in time. I felt that there was only one trick that was worth perfecting and that would be the one where he toss his coin which apprantly change in midair.

But still, im not impressed by his handling but he is one of my favourites cause of how well he presents his tricks.

c) David Stone Basic Coin Magic 1 & 2

Perfect. Enough details, Routines are cleverly structured. Many rooms to fit in your own personality. I LOVE his handling. I own both David Roth and Ammar's Beginner's coin dvd, but i just think Stone is the best. That is just my preference.

Some ask why am i not learning from the classic masters like David Roth. The thing is that i can't see the magic once i figured that David Roth did a false transfer, but i still see the magic in Stone's dvd after watching it over a hundred times.

d) Stuck

Got this on impulse, but didn manage to gain anything from this since i thought it isnt practical and the "move" looks unatural.

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There are quite a few more which i think would be foregin to many so i think ill stop here. I took interest in Shoot Ogawa but after watching his routines in Cultural Exchange Vol 2. I think its not my thing. Can someone let me know if its much better in Cultural Exchange Vol 1 or if there are any other Coin Dvds by him thats good?

Thanks for your replies if there are any! Feel free to recommend me a few coin dvds to look into. Will be great if there is a demo version that's available in youtube. :)

Not much of a coin person myself, but I have heard good things about David Roth's 3 DVD set on Coin magic that just came out. It used to be sold separately, but i think they are now selling as a set.

Im assuming it is not David Roth's expert coin magic made easy vol 1-3? Will check it out. Didn't know that he was stil producing dvds.

The new set out is indeed Expert Coin Magic made Easy. This is not a new Production Dvd. It's the same one that was already sold. The only difference is that this is a box set of 3 volumes at a very good price. Those who wish to own a set, this a good time to buy a box set. The book on the other hand has much more materials than the video. With visual learning being a much easier and faster form of learning, I would suggest to get the Dvds first to learn the techniques and then subsequently get the book to work and build on routines.

- Revolutionary Coin magic - Jay Sankey

This is quite a good dvd I must say. Sankey has really some good ideas in this dvd. Quite a lot of things one can learn from here and then use the techniques to build a routine.

- Greg Wilson In Action 1-3

No comments on this as I've not watched it before. However, I have to say that Greg Wilson's style is very smooth and his coin work is really commendable.

- David Stone Basic Coin Magic 1 & 2

An excellent set of Dvd catered for bringing a beginner to an intermidiate coin worker. David Stone uses simple sleights to create strong coin routines and many are suitable for walk around without the need of a table. Something that is very beneficial to coin workers. I too recommend this set when if you're an experienced coin worker.

- Stuck

As much as I can remember, this is only a coin vanish. Nothing much you can learn from this dvd. It'll be more worthwhile to spend your money on a nice meal.

As for Cultural Exchange, I prefer Vol 1 to 2 as in Vol 1 there are most routines that can very suitable for walk around and there are more Coin work in 1. You can check out some demos on youtube I think.

A few good dvds on Coins I would recommend are:

- The New York Coin Magic Seminar Series
This is a fantastic series but it's ex if you're considerng getting all 7 dvds. Get Vol 1 on Coins across. This is a very good resouce on Coins Across.

- Curtis Kam Palms of Steel Series
Kurtis Kam is another very fine coin worker but do note that inside all his 4 dvds are knuckle busting stuff. You need a lot of practice to get it pat down.

- Michael Rubenstein Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights
This is a good reference set to identify all the various concealments and techniques. Magic Makers also came our with a Modern Coin Magic set which I think is comparable to this.

All in all, I still like the old school Modern Coin Magic Book by JB Bobo. There are really a lot of good stuff inside. It's just that it's rather dry. Whenever I get sometime, I would read up on the routines and see if I can rework them.

Cheers
Jerome

Hmm...

My favourites are:

1. David Roth's Expert Coin Magic Made Easy. All 3 volumes.

I know you don't really dig his work, but when it comes to learning all the essentials in coins, it is second to none.

2. David Stone's Coin Magic. 1 and 2.

You should know how good they are.

3. Jay Sankey's Revolutionary Coin Magic 1.

Again, you may not like his style or his jokes and some of the effects inside were really quite crappy, but there are also many advanced moves inside that are very good for other effects.

4. Kauffman On Coins (book)

YOu might hate reading, but this is really a comprehensive book on coins. The illustrations are mostly quite clear. Give it a try.

You might want to check out Rubinstein's Knock out Coin Magic. Its an old video that was converted to DVD. The routines in it are very good.

Great. Ill definately check out cultural exchange vol 1. Sounds promising from how you put it.

Can you tell me a little more about Curtis Kam Plams of steel?

I have bobo coin magic dvd set of 4. Its not what im looking for because there are too many sleights there which i see no reason to master everything inside if i don't know how to apply it.

Personally i perfer to look at routines and i would modify it my way from there.

I have something by Michael Rubenstein called Knock out coin magic. I think not many or in fact none are for walk around situations but yes i think the routines in it are quite good.

Thanks for the recommendations. Im going to check out - The New York Coin Magic Seminar Series!

Just wanted to point out a little more about my personally preferences.

I don't work with [ nor do i have other coin g******. I also don't use a close up mat even when i perform on the table.

Partly why i don't perfer David Roth's and Knock Out Coin magic is because its more for table work? One can argue that it is a combination of everything of course. But personally i just use a simple coin to do tricks. So even when a dvd has everything to offer, it may not apply for me. Especially those that makes use of the okito coin box( pardon me if i did not get the spelling right )

Anyone who own's Cultural exchange vol 1. do give your opinions.

No [ ? Means it's time to get one! Haha

Any reason you don't work with them?

Zi An

Serveral reasons actually. Firstly cause im too used to my foregin coins right now which is slightly smaller than a half dollar. Im using some arcade coins as copper coins and the 5 Rupiah for my "silver half dollar"

I can't muscle pass as well with a half dollar and i can execute my techniques better with my own coins.

I think another reason why is because a [ effect doesn't appeal to me as much. Perharps it does to a lay person and i can no longer see it in their perspective :(

Lastly, i haven seen a good effect with a [. Then again, maybe it's because i know that they are using one.

I understand that you got yourself CoinOne sometime back and judging from your comments, it was pretty good stuff wasn't it? But i didn't feel the same way about that. So far the one and only effect that i take interest is the one by David Stone under "extras" where he performed in vegas i THINK.

I have many g*****k coins but I seldom use them. The one that I use most is probably copper/silver.

Get Giacomo Bertini's stuff (if you want 'advanced' stuff :mellow:)

I think you're treading down a very dangerous road there - if you can't see magic from the perspective of a layman, it's hard then to measure the impact of any of your magic. The best judge of how magical an effect is is still the layman. After all, you get the best enjoyment from performing to lay people - don't tell me you get kicks from doing magic to a bunch of magicians who already know everything you know?

Magicians are good sources of inspiration and very good people to practice with. But they sometimes not the best people to tell you how good some effects are. I think Darwin Ortiz said it best - "The fact that you like an effect is NOT a good reason to do it." I strongly advocate this doctrine - Just because you like a effect is usually not good enough a reason to do it. Most of the time it's because it's simply different from what you know and hence makes it appealing through its NOVELTY.

In the series SHARK, I think Sebastien Stark had a quote I'm really so FOND of now. "In a jury trial, only 12 opinions matter - and yours isn't one of them."

I SO BELIEVE that it applies to magic - In a magical performance, only the Audience's opinion of an effect matters. Yours is irrelevant. How great you think your magic is has to be validated by the audience. And it REALLY helps if you can see things from the audience's perspective. ie. think like a layman. (And please don't assume that laymen are stupid people with no common sense. It's usually the magicians who lack the common sense to realise that some things don't add up in an effect - and it DOES matter to the audience: Like appearing in front of something even though you've set things up to look like you're going THROUGH it. I think there's a great deal of difference in being sensible and logical and just being conveniently different.)

I hope Enrico shows up for the next gathering. Ask him to show you his coin work with the [. He does a KILLER version that I think is one of the best I've seen. And when you throw in a [ at the right moment for the right effect - you don't just make magic; you make miracles.

Hope it helps.

Shade
PS: No offense intended to anyone who might inadvertently draw undue connections to unimplied implications from the author, a self-professed coin idiot.

I used to abhor any form of g*****ks, whether coins or cards. I thought: "It is not examinable, it is troublesome to carry around and how can anybody NOT know there is something (if the effect is too amazing, like coin bite)...?"

But after these 2 years, I realized there are many many wonderful effects that I was missing out on, which are impossible to do without ultilizing g*****ks.

Eg:

1. Invisible Deck
2. Grandpa Aces (DF Cards)
3. Dark Card
4. Floating of anything (IT)
5. Scotch and Soda
6. Bill Switch (TT)

If the strength of a good effect really depends on it, I think it is worth using one. And if we use it properly, there is very little risk. Now I have a copper/silver coin for doing some of David Stone's effects.

Also like you, I used to avoid table effects too, as I usually do magic "off the table" but I find myself being very limited in my choices. And the truth is, you can usually modified many of them to be "off table" if needed.

I think the coins shouldn't really matter. I started with M'Sia Coins too until I switched to Halfs. It's just a matter of getting used.

I dont think you need a [ to do good coin magic. It can enhance your magic, but it is not necessary.

Anyway, I kinda agree with Shade about how the magician's pov does not matter. But in my opinion, it does abit. Because, you are the medium of magic, and being that, you have to believe that you are doing good magic, and not simple tricks to fool people.

I checked out the spellbound video. Its pretty good. Would check out his stuff to see if it suits my style of learning. I tend to pick my materials quite a bit. Im not attracted to his presentation but i'd take a look at the techniques involved. Thanks.

P.S. I noticed that you are always offering materials that not many have heard off.

Yes i think its quite sad and maybe worrying that im not seeing things at the audiences point of view.

More often than not, its me who correct my fellow magician friends that we should always do a trick that appeals to the audience, but not one that we fancy with full of difficult sleights. I have heard that quote before and i so understand it. :lol:

There's just something about shells. Perharps it's its simplicity that just too much for me. Just like what Axl said, who won't question a coin b***?
When something is too magical, it seems like people would question more. Not just examine the coins, but question why isn't that you don't do it with a 50 cent coin. Thats the bad thing about Singapore coins. If they had singapore g******s, i'd be the first to rush and get them.

Just to rephrase this, there's just something about shell i can't accept. Not that i totally cant see things in the audiences perspective. There are actually many more reasons why im not comfortable with a shell.

That would be great. I think i got to ask you a favor. To ask anyone who knows a thing or two about coins to show me something. Im too shy to approach the seniors. :P

That makes two of us. But i must confess, im using a few gimmick like the cardtoon deck, and the impossible location coin box etc. So, yes, im looking at this from both sides.

I understand how gimmick can give good reactions. I get the best reactions from the impossible location. You named quite a few effects and i think none of it makes use of a coin other than scotch and soda. (I don't know how a IT works on a coin. Hopefully you can show me a thing or two next time!)

I classify Scotch and Soda as a Copper sliver routine. I felt that my current copper sliver routine has served me pretty well. The last time i saw Scotch and Soda was by Soloman. And i really didn't like it. Of course there can be other application or presentation. And hopefully someday i wake up my idea and realise how wonderful this classic trick really is.

DAVID STONE! WOOTS! Is it something in volume two? Hopefully i get to see some of your turnovers! Im actually leaning on getting a copper/silver coin just because David is using it. :D

It sounds like im you two years ago. I don't know do many coin tricks on the table partly because im more comfortable with my audience looking down. ( larger angle than on the table ) Hope i learn a thing or two from you in the coming gathering.

My coins are very different. Perharps i can show you why during the gathering. Im really more comfortable with it.

I don't often to tricks to the same audience. And i usually have something new to offer. So actually, yes im fine with the routines im already doing, UNLESS, there's something that inspires me to learn a [ effect. Im sure you use a [. Hope you can show me a thing or two too!

I think there's no absolute towards anything. To me a magician's opinion is a guage of how good i really am. I came across many who think that they are good with coins when i didn't have the same opinion.

Im quite bad at coins myself, so hopefully fellow magicians can give their ratings when they see my performances so that i know where i really stand, than be disillusioned by the "WOWS" from lay people.

Wow, you actually took the trouble to reply everyone of us...

1. Yes, IT can be used on coins. If I am not wrong, SPUN used a IT. Correct me if I'm.

2. I think I know how Solomon presents S&S. I have written a thread on it (under Scotch and Soda), wonder if it's the same thing we saw.

3. Yes, it's in Vol 2 of David Stone's. There are a few, in fact, but I forgot the names and truth to be told, I have not been practising for quite some time lately. Busy with work... :wub:

4. Thinks it really takes some inspiration to like using certain things.

5. Seeing things purely from layman's point of view is not easy once you get into magic. We would be more impressed by the technical aspects of an effect rather than the magical impact of it.

Just try to notice how laymen react to effects. Eg: I know for sure Stigmata is a very good effect for audience because it always get HUGE reactions from them. But a Nacho Mama's Triumph (Daniel Garcia's effect) gets a pretty mild reaction because they are not really shocked by the kicker. It's only a magician who would go "Eh...? How come the deck change colour? I thought it's a typical triumph effect?"

Like I said before, I seldom use g******s but I'm not against using them. Infact, sometimes it'll be to our advantage if we know when to use it. Not many people know these stuffs exists, so take advantage of using them when you can.

LoyaLover, I hope to meet you someday. :)

Quite an interesting thread on coin resources.

I always believe the basic to good magic be it coin magic or otherwise is to master the standard sleights well.

Most magicians with the availability of dvds, tends to forget mastering the basic well and jump into something advance. Believe me, they will end up messing the effects.

In my opinion, the best book is still "Bobo's Modern Coin Magic" and its a good reference for serious magicians into coin.

Richard Kaufman have published 2 books, Coinmagic & Expert Coin Magic (David Roth). They are worth to keep in your library.

To some magicians, Roth may be a boring performer compare to Stone, but
everyone has their own style. It is their ideas that you want to learn and not performing exactly like them.

David Neighbors is also a very good coin technician, but to some, he is very boring performer. All of them has made a name in magic for their contributions in this art.

While dvd is a good medium of learning, but there are more to it when you read from the book.

All these years, I have collected a wide range of Gaffs which I seldom use. Just like the ideas and techniques in the making of gaffs. Favourite is the Hopping Halves, Copper Silver & Brass Transposition & The Mark.

My standard effects are still 4 Coins Across & Hanging Coins. Short and easy for lay audience to understand and that's what they pay me for to entertain and not to stress them.

Uncle Bob

You know what, I'm wondering now how many times am i going to be doing it. :D

Its a fantastic effect but i don't know if it is practical. It is very important to be as to whether the effect can can be reset easily etc. It seems like SPUN makes use of quite a bit of "extra help". I have a problem with these fantastic effects. Why isn't it that common if its really that good. Sometimes i think magic ties in with marketing too much these days.

Certainly. And im very inspired by David Stone. At the same time, i believe that ill be inspired by fellow coin workers here.

This is one trick that gets good reactions that i don't use as often. Just can't bring myself to do it. For me i need that bit of satisfaction from doing a trick. I don't get much of that from Stigmata.

I need to start thinking this way.

Its funny cause i have been hoping to meet you since long before even the last gathering when someone mentioned how good you are with coins. Oh yes, i even felt like getting "Just in Case" from you so that i could meet you in person. :lol:

I feel the same way and among all those coin dvds i have and many more, i have only been doing tricks from David Stone's.

Every experienced magician seem to be saying that you find gems in books. During the next gathering i think ill probably request a few to show me something that is "exclusively" from these books. Can be tricks or presentation styles even.

It would be great if i can a chance to meet you and see a trick or two using gaffs!

Thanks so much for your recommendations.

I guess some people is afraid of being too dependant on gaffs because they are not impromtu. And you don't want to be caught in a situation where you did not bring them with you.

Also, sometimes people are kind of lazy, myself included. Like IT is troublesome to bring around and set up, not easy to reset and all that. Like SPUN for example. Not common because not many people can be bothered with the set up.

I still remember 3 years ago, I was drinking with a 2 laymen friends, and 2 magicians. And one of the magicians was showing the 2 laymen some magic, including dream card and ambitious cards. But amongst all these effects, the one trick that they still remember until today is SPUN.

Like shade said to me, "If you're not sure if an effect is good or worth performing, listen to your audience"

But at the end of the day, for you Wei Liang, I think there is nothing wrong with not liking gaffs. Maybe you're still at that stage where sleight of hands still excites you. But i think what most people here are trying to say is that gaffs are an excellent extra something you have use in your magic to maybe heighten it. So it's good that you keep an open mind and not shun away from it so quickly. ^_^

Zi An