Firstly, i hope this doesn't count as a double post because the last one is pretty much buried and in this topic, i hope to discuss specifically on how to get the maximum height for muscle pass.

I have met a few good coin workers who have been telling me how much the height does not quite matter but more of how well you can fully utlize it's capabilities.

Personally, and for many audiences, just watching the coin fly upwards is one of the most visual coin magic. Particularlly for me, it gets me the best reaction that a coin vanish. (I am sure if you can do a perfect retention vanish that may just get you better reactions. But for me, its MP that gives that "WOW")

I have seen stunning effects done with the muscle pass, particularlly from Shoot ogawa, but to recieve the reactions this technique deserves, i think a simple "Hey watch this coin fly upwards" is something i want to get hold of first.

I just wanted to clarify that because im very sure the better coin workers out there don't see the need to amaze people by using MP.

Alright! Back to the post, I have seen Jeromefang passing his half dollars around...30cm? Or at least that's what i recall. I think it was quite amazing and it looks almost like real magic.

I have been practicing with a light coin and i can get it to fly up for around that height. How should one practice for height? When you just keep passing the same half dollar upwards, do you improve this way? Is there a limit? Should one use a bigger or a smaller coin?

Additional Information:

Shoot ogawa and David Kong both came out with a dvd for Muscle Pass. I was interested in the one by Shoot Ogawa because some part of his dvd involved a competition amongst fellow magician to pass the coin upwards. It was reported that he could pass it at the height of 55cm.

My experience with MP:

For simple illustration, ill explain it in terms of level. The more the level, the higher the height.

I can now pass my light coin to about the height of 20cm. (Level 2)

1) When i practice with a smaller coin,(SG50CENTS) it increases the level for my regular coin(LightCoin) to (Level 4)

But after passing with my regular coin for about 5-10 times, it goes back to (Level 2)

The good thing about this is that for a short moment, my mp goes up really high. However, practicing with a smaller coin for MP, spoils my CP.

2) When i practice with a heavy coin, it increases the level of my regular coin to (Level 3)

But once again, it goes back to a (Level 2) after sometime.

3) Classic palming 3 or more coins also helps to improve your MP. Mine went from a (Level 1) to a (Level 2) But I guess thats the limit.

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I sure hope im making sense right here. Bottomline, how do i keep my MP high, and keeping it at that level.

Hi Wei liang,

You write good topics on Coins. I'll need find time to try and reply to all of them as I'm so tied up with work… In any case, for this, you sound like you want to break the World Record for MP haha... With all the levels, it sounds like some arcade game where you can level up lol... Ok back to your question on how to gain height and maintain that height.

I shall not go into telling you to CP the whole day or CP with heavier coins. That was addressed earlier on and based on what I saw you did during the gathering, you're doing fine. Hence, I shall first touch on things outside technique.

(1) Size
Let's face it Size does matter and indeed I'm referring the human body. Some are longer while some are shorter. Some have fatter ones while some have thinner ones, for example our TBMIS. Although it sounds explicit but you all know I'm referring to HANDS (Don't worry Axl.. Lol). The Size of your hand the size of the coin you use greatly affects your MP. You'll need to use coins in which your hand can manage. Use too big or small a coin the muscle will not be trained correctly.

(2) Edge/Thickness of Coin
If you're a coin worker, you'll know that sharp egdes and round edges make a huge difference when doing MP. So does the thickness of the coin. For starters who are learning MP, it's recommended that you use sharp edges as the grip with your CP is easier. The thickness should'nt be too thin as you might risk cutting yourself. Our Singapore 50cent thickness is a good enough. If your coin is to thin, just blu-tac 2 together and practice from there.

(3) Hand Condition
Hand condition affects us conjurers a lot. If you have too sweaty or too dry, it'll affect the height as well. Again the type of coin plays a part as well. I cannot tell you which condition is better. You'll have to experiment to judge for yourself. For me, I prefer it to be a bit tacky as it'll give me more grip in my CP.

(4) Rest your Hands once in a while
Muscle at the end of the day is a living tissue. You cannot keep working it. It has to rest. I discovered this unconsciously as well. There was this period of time where I was MPing almost everyday. I then stopped for like a week due to exams and to my surprise, when I did my MP after that week of absence, my MP was much higher. I realise this was due to muscle requiring a need to rest so that it can sort of recuperate from all the training. That is why bodybuilders also take like 3 days break after like 2 weeks of hardcore training. Hence, once you've achieved considerable height, take a break for a couple of days for your muscle to take memory and let it Level up automatically.

I hope my pointers above can help you abit. At the end of the day, it's still practice makes perfect. You cannot expect a step to heaven. It'll take considerable amount of work.

Again, I want to stress to you that you need not achieve a height of like 50cm to do good coin magic. I don't deny that when the spectator sees the coin fall upwards they have that WOW factor. I get that a lot too but this is not magic. It's more like a puzzle to them and when this puzzle is solved, you'll lose all the magic moment. Your presence of prestige will fall and you'll have to work much harder to gain back the attention of your audience.

There is no hard and fast rule on how you should use your MP. At the end of the day you'll need to see the context of your whole routine to judge for yourself. Hence, do not limit yourself by just showing the coin falling up. It'll do you more harm then good. My 2 cents worth of opinion…


Cheers
Jerome

Half the time im quite afraid that no one'd understand what im even asking! :lol:

That would be very nice for u!

Hey! I wonder what fits me! I have been doing MP for more than a year already. Im quite afraid that I've already spoiled my hands by using those small and light oins. :(

This is very helpful! My hands won't be examinable if i don't give it a break. :P

Thanks so much! I think you are pretty much the right guy to ask about MP heights.

Pretty much the only guy you can ask about MP too.

ZiAn

WOW. I'm not that good with coins, but this topic sure does carry valuable information for me. Most say that MP is not much of a use, but i guess it is pretty useful for coin work still. If i'm not practising for the Falling Upwards effect, what would you guys think is a good distance that is sufficient for normal coin work? I hope i'm not off-topic here...

I think there are a few things that Jermoe skipped

"I shall not go into telling you to CP the whole day or CP with heavier coins. That was addressed earlier on and based on what I saw you did during the gathering, you're doing fine. Hence, I shall first touch on things outside technique."

which are also very important. Things like MP with a heavier coin to get your muscle accustomed to it. You can do this by using a blue tack and pasting a few smaller coins to the coin that you are using for MP.

If you are not talking bout purely going upwards, that this is the level for passing side ways and upwards for normal coin work.

Sideways - 8 - 25cm

Would be good enough if Upwards - 10 - 15 cm

In Cultural exchange vol. 1, Shoot Ogawa demostrated many ways to make full use of the MP move! Should check those out!

This is SO TRUE! It is something i had discovered recently too. I had been practising not only mp but other coin sleights also and at the beginning, no matter how long i practise it just never came smooth. I kind of give up after 1wk of practise but after a few days later i tried to do it again and i was able to execute it kinda smoothly!

I recalled practising my retention vanish so much to the point of breaking down because I could not get it smooth. Until I realise I was rushing instead of practising right. I rested and the next day, results were better. This went on and in the end I got it well. Rest(:

I've came across magicians who does the muscle pass of a decent height and their palm actually looks normal.

I've been hoping to improve the height of my MP since forever, and i guess thats one reason why the mark is always on my hand.

Should one actually cut off the skin that's already harden closest to the thumb?

Will i get it at the same height if i remove that part of the skin? Will i develop a harder layer if i continue practicing after its removed?

The calluses form because the friction from practising the MP will eventually wear the skin out. The body reacts by thickening the skin to build resistance to the friction. The only good about the calluses is probably that you can practice more without feeling pain or irritation on the hand. I wouldn't recommend you go about cutting it. You might hurt yourself.

If you only practice the MP on one palm, you will realise that there is a muscle on that palm which is absent in the other. That muscle I believe is largely responsible for the strength of your MP.

As what Jerome has said, you need to rest your muscles. Overdoing it only means you are hurting yourself and this will stagnate progress. Muscle development, muscle memory takes time.

With 30 minutes of practise a day, do that continously for 1 month, and you'll get to see results. That was how i master the MP.

It takes time, and patience to see results. Rome was not built in a day!

To get it high, I suggest just concentrating on practising horizontally first, ie practise popping it from the 3'oclock position to the 9'oclock position.

Then try it from 3'oclock to 10 o'clock.

Once successful, try 3'oclock to 11'oclock.

Do that until you can propel the coin vertically upwards, the higher the better (assuming if you want to break the world record for MP :)

ya, i agree with Justice. Anyone have any good dvd for handwash?

Hello wkc,

I've seen your history of threads in this forum. You are simply not value adding and contributing. You are asking the members here if they have any DVDs to sell.

Oh, I found another post here with similar words: http://forums.singaporemagiccircle.com/ind...opic=3181&st=15

And I quote wkc, "Thats a great DVD, anyone selling? haha.. pm me if anyone selling.. "

I hope you can value add and contribute instead of going through the same questions in almost every thread you have.

To the forums admins and moderators, if you feel this post is not relevant, feel free to delete.

hi justice, no offends if i say something nasty. Yes, it is a place to contribute and share but it is also a place where we can post anything related to magic.
I am asking if there is any good Dvd or props to intro is because

1. i like the tricks. I only ask for recommendation on few of the posts that i feel that it suit me best. I am not a person who anyhow post or ask for recommendations. if i do not post here, where can i post for recommendation? if i start a new topics, it will be very confusing.

2. i will not try to dig out older posts eg 06 or 07 post to contribute just to reach the target post of 80 inorder to sell or ask someone to recommend any things. Btw, some of the contribution in some of the post, most of them can read thru the net.

3. What is the purpose of this forum? How do you define contribution and value add?

When you learn or keep in touch with magic? Since like you had contribute many post in this forum since you join and it since like you know most of it. If it is so, will you open a class to teach all the newbie here including me?

Lastly, would like to commend on your post. You had join since March 11, 2011. Just within this 1 or 2 month, your post shootup to 80 just by contribution. Wow, you really a great master in magic. And you just post one item tatoo for auction.

No offend bro, i just commend what i feel that i am being no value added. :)

Yup, I read up all the threads because I have spare time, anything wrong with that? And when I feel I can contribute, I will just go ahead and value add, which I define as adding something to the thread not previously mentioned. Some of the forum folks have given me some encouragement, and well, I don't want to mention the negative things they seem to imply about you.

You touch your heart and ask your conscience..

As for putting an item for sale, what's wrong? It is my way of giving back to this forum. $3 for Tattoo Joe, I gladly ship it to the current leading person. I am contributing in this way, can you? Even if this auction ends at $1, I will still pass to this person.

And don't bother bidding for it, because I will not let you have this. And by the way, you sound as though I am treating the Marketplace as a dumping ground. So how many products have you seen me selling? The answer is 1. I bet you don't know how to count.

You say you want to ask about Handwash techniques? This thread is for Muscle Pass, why ask something when there is another thread in SMC about Handwash?

Did you bother to find it? No, you did not. http://forums.singaporemagiccircle.com/ind...showtopic=11968

Obviously you don't. Stay on the topic. I rather you spend time on the Muscle Pass, look at my tips for mastering it. You can do good with it.

okie, put a stop on the arguement. We are here to make friends, not enemy. :) Actually this forum look quite dead for the topics part. Only the marketplace look active recently. Any way to make it active again?

Sure, enjoy your stay, my friend :)