Hey guys, i am having problems with doing a perfect DL. Some people says it is quite obvious to someone who is really watching me do it. So I was just wondering how do you all do your DL and how to make it as clean as possible. Thanks.

Practice, practice, practice. Patience, patience, patience.

Having said that, practising the right things in the right way is important too.

Other than the technique of the sleight itself, there are other factors to take the heat off the moment of doing executing the move, such as body language, eye contact, patter, etc.

Before anything else, read up on the different methods of executing the move and decide which is most suitable for you, then practise it with diligence for a few months until it becomes second nature and you won't even have to think when executing it.

Sometimes it's hard to go into details here, so why don't you drop by the gathering at the end of the month and I'm sure our fellow members can offer some assistance to you in this area.

AdrianLee

The trick to getting better at this sleight (or any other sleight) is to pick a technique and practice it until you can do it flawlessly.

Don't get sidetracked.

Choose a basic DL (the strike DL is one) and play with it until you can do it in your sleep. Not only will you master a full proof double, but through your practice, you will absorb sub-consciously how to handle d**bl* cards. This is the key to unlocking other DL techniques.

Good luck.

Thanks people. okay i shall learn the strike double instead of the push off:).

Oh so you are learning the Push off, well for the push off it take lots of time and practice. I still remeber i took 2 months to learn the push off dl, still up to now i am still practicing this sleight everyday.

Yeah. But i realised I have to look at the deck while doing the push off DL. Do you have to look at the deck while doing it?.

You can perform any move without looking with enough practice.

I'm not a card guy, but when doing DLs, the most important thing is to be natural. You don't have to stick to a hard-and-fast rule. The smoother your move is, the less attention people will pay even if they are burning you.

While it is good to take the heat off your hands when doing any moves, don't do it in an unnatural manner. That is an immediate tell-sign that something had just happened.

I hope that makes sense.

Yes i can but sometimes when i perform to other ppl i will still tend to look at the deck to perform the push off dl. To me looking at the deck and doing the push off at the same time is not a big issue, just keep on practicing as times goes by you will get it.

I believe for a start, the DL taught in Encyclopedia of Magic by Wilson is a good one. Also, the very basic one in the Ellusionist video ( I beleive it is titled, Street Magic) is also recommended.

For a start, it is safer not get a br*** easily and reliable, hence I personally would not recommend on the spot get ready like push off or strike.

People, I'm proud to say it took me around 6 months before I can confidently present this sleight.

This is probably the most abused card sleight in the world but it is worth the practice and any magician would know how to do one their way.
There are tons of methods to do this one and I urge you to try out different ones from the books or dvds you have and find the one you like the most.

Having said this, do realise that methods for DL have faults in them as to in executing the move itself, sometimes it is possible for spectators to spot it.
I think for every DL, it is good to take the heat off the deck or use certain misdirection.

Whether or not looking at the deck while doing it depends on the method you use.

I use a strike DL and I think it is alright to do it while looking at the deck and I have no get ready.

But if you were to do a snap DL or push off, I do believe before you LIFT, there are some tells or flaws to the spectators, so it is best you do not look at the deck as well.

For the best, I do agree with Adrian that you come down the gathering so we can help better. That is the best to solve technical problems.

Wow thanks everyone for your opinions and contributions. I do appreciate it and i guess i would have to practice my DL for a lot longer.

What is strike double?

ZiAn

It's lifting without get ready. By feel and counting as you lift.

Well, I guess to sum up everything with a little bit of my experience is:

1) Have a rough knowledge of DLs available.
2) Know the proper handling and techniques to it
3) Practice all of them
4) Select the best technique which suits your style
5) Practice, practice and practice until it becomes second nature to you.

Have fun!

P.S.: A bad DL can kill a trick big big time!

Haha, magicalobo, you are far too kind to provide me with the answers. What i was driving at was that this is an open forum and we should be mindful of the words we use. It does not take a genius to figure out from this thread alone what we are talking about!

But i will be more direct the next time. Please from now on use shortforms or censored word for any sensative words.

ZiAn

I think the DL is truly an open secret: everyone knows of it; but nobody really knows it. It's like a second deal or a bottom deal - everyone knows it, but they won't see it coming if the timing and execution is right.

Anyway, I just updated my website and incidentally somebody sent me a similar question pertaining to this, so I thought I'd share it here.

Multiple Lift Practice

Shade

Hmm is it really a good idea to expose the different kinds of DLs, complete with illustrations on an open website? I know they are an open secret, but still...

Not accusing anyone of anything, just wondering whether it is appropriate. :huh:

I don't think it's much of an issue because full open pages on these are available on google books; you can actually browse through them online.

In any case, it serves as a decent guide to beginners and points them in the right direction of where the source is.

You'll find that I deliberately left out enough material - mostly all the technical details - if you try and learn it simply through my writeup and illustrations, you'll fail. :)

Shade

Cool, Shade really just posted a good article on the DL those who just started out in card magic can go read up on that article that he just posted. :D

I think that is highly inappropriate. It being or not being an open secret is not the point - so what if people know that there is such a thing as a DL which shows two as one? Revealing the exact method for accomplishing the DL is bad enough. If you do a strike DL, no layperson would suspect it is a DL unless armed with the information that there is such a thing as a strike DL, as opposed to whatever other DL's that they might 'know'.

Maybe you could also start exposing the multiple ways of palming a card or coin, since it is 'truly an open secret' as well, and 'they won't see it coming if the timing and execution is right'. Perhaps the same logic extends to sleeving techniques, trick decks, false transfers, etc.

I actually agree with Gordon.

Open secret or not, I personally wouldnt endorse the public display of it.

I think alot of our in hand card work still rely on the lifts, so i think its not appropriate.

i think it also probably helps a lot to flip a card the same way whether you are doing a DL or not. it's a lot harder to tell that something odd is going on if you always use the same motion in lifting a card.

Agreed, Shade's article would be really inappropriate if it was posted for the sake of exposure but it was not.

The context of the write-up is a guide for magicians who want to improve or learn more about the technique and how to progress from one into another. It is not written for the layperson. If a layperson wanted to know more about exposure and tricks, Youtube probably provides far "richer" materials and is easier to search. I would probably have to ransack through a haystack before getting to Shade's website.

Moreover, the write-up does not teach one the technique. In that sense, even if an interested magician wannabe reads it, he/she will need to do some homework.

As far as exposure goes, another local website on magic had a video on the Ego Change which was taught on Youtube. The video was made by a member of that website, the video is open to the public, and thanks to that person, I now know what the ego change is without buying anything from Daniel Garcia. Is that okay?

I think we have to consider whom the write-up is being written for, the context and content of it before we leap into deciding whether it is inappropriate or not. Let's differentiate this from the egoistic magician wannabes who, despite lacking proper techniques and knowledge, make really poor exposes for the sake of getting viewership or the typical exposure on television that is done for money.

Is it really inappropriate to share an article for magicians on how to improve their magic?

There is a certain flaw in Jlow's argument:

Whether something is meant for laymen or magician, it probably doesn't matter... because the article would not "discriminate" who is reading it.

A layman who happens to read it probably won't be able to execute a perfect DL just by reading, but they doesn't need to for them to recognise one when they see one.

To know of a certain technique is good enough for them.

But on the other hand, how sure are we that a layman would even bother to search out this website, take the time to really look through all the threads and stumble upon the secrets of a DL.

Yep, Axl, you're right.

Unfortunately, the problem with putting something on the internet is that it becomes accessible unless password protected in some form. However, accessibility does not mean availability because the ways to get to the article is limited. The article will enjoy at most a low number of readers. The impact it will have on laymen is insignificant as compared to the impact it will help other interested budding magicians. (Actually, I have no evidence to prove this, but neither does anyone who claims that the article will do more harm than good to magic.)

I can understand if we feel uncomfortable that such a good resource has been put online: available on the forum and on the internet. I do feel uncomfortable with exposures that do only harm for the magic community. However, I wouldn't label the intention/action of the sharing of an article to help specifically other magicians as being "highly inappropriate" unless there are evidently harmful results.

Exposure is exposure. Whether it does harm to the community is a separate issue and so is the intention. This forum does not encourage exposure so it does bring forth a question of whether putting a tutorial here is appropriate, regardless of whether it is in an open domain or if it is an open secret.

As for the other local website that posed a tutorial on another sleight. I was pretty appalled - to say the least, for that is Daniel Garcia's sleight, and it is not even in their right to teach.

Two wrongs doesn't make one right, by the way.

And after all that off topic, besides all that instructions and advises, i think, for DLs, one thing is very important - do the standard lift as you would DL. Many simply forget this one basic rule.

Yea, I was pretty surprised when I saw that as well. I did not mean to say that it was okay but more to draw a comparison.

I have to disagree with this. I think that exposure is a gray area. In order to discuss or teach magic, there will be some form of exposure. In fact, there is plenty of exposure on this forum. However, what kind of exposure is considered acceptable, good and helpful and what kind is considered harmful?

Why is it that exposure carries a negative connotation in magic? Largely because certain kinds of exposure: such as television exposure for money, or blatant exposure out of a lack of respect and appreciation for magic happens. These kinds of exposures cause harm to magic. If exposure by itself is not harmful, then there is no reason to say exposure is bad.

It is important to look beyond the superficial. What is the consequences of a particular kind of exposure? What were the intentions or motivations for it? Finally, decide whether the exposure is good and acceptable or harmful?

In this forum, there is certainly exposure but mostly out of good intent and the exposure is moderated to an acceptable level (of course based on what the moderators think acceptable is). On other forums like The Magic Cafe, the exposure is far greater (or to some of us, we may say "worse") but again, the intent is to help magicians and to share.

To add on to what Shade has said, beyond perfecting the technique, it is equally important to use it in the right context, at the right time. Construction of an effect is also very important. If you feel that you are getting caught, perhaps it may have to do with the construction of the effect or even the presentation that leads the audience to such a suspicion. You may be using the technique in the wrong context.

Well, I think at the end of the day, we still need to bear in mind that there are laypeople who will join this forum in hopes of learning something, as evident in some of the introduction.

That aside, I actually found the article useful (Thanks Shade), but thats a different issue here. I agree with what Joshua Jay said about his book, that its not exposure in the sense that people will have to source it out and read it inorder to learn. And the link to that sleight, is openly shared. That gives me an uneasy feeling.

http://forums.singaporemagiccircle.com/ind...p?showtopic=745

I think if it were to be so open in this forum, then shouldnt the rules of censoring and using short forms be applicable too?

One last note, thanks for the arguments on both sides, and in this online world, its very easy to misinterpret text, which is void of emotions, and attribute it to a certain emotion. So I hope no one misinterprets my comment as a hostile one. = )