I would like to share my experience with fellow Magicians of what i have encountered a few days back.

I was at the concorde's branch magic hall and i witnessed a group of youngsters raising their voices at the salesman, demanding for refunds; insisting the DVDs and items are pirated.

I was curious, i went nearer to them and pretended to look around, i overheard about the salesman saying whatever they are selling are original and approved by the MDA. It was quite a scene for around 15minutes till i saw the salesman refunded some money to the youngsters, but refused to refund on the DVD.

Those youngsters even spoke to the boss of the magic hall through their shop's phone dialed by the salesman. But i guess the magic hall is quite firm about not refunding the DVD.

Shortly after the youngsters called for the police, the salesman requested the youngsters to get out of the shop as he needed the gents. He locked his shop and headed for the toilet. I was camping outside and to my surprise the police came much faster than what i've expected. The salesman has not returned and the police were interviewing the youngsters.


And the funny thing is, the police together with the youngsters waited for the salesman to return! I thought the salesman chickened out but he did came back.

I was outside the shop and i saw the salesman refunded the youngsters money for the DVD under the police presence. The youngsters left happily with their money refunded and left the salesman behind with the Police. I stayed behind and watched how the police took the salesman's particulars and throwing him lots of questions.

I didn't have sufficient time that day and this is how much i can share.

Knew this would happen sooner or later.

We already have lots of complain from members here too.

Luckily, I pass-by here by chance and didn't tempted to buy stuff from Magic Hall.

Thanks for sharing =)

Wow..

Finally a touch down to these people. Anyway MDA doesn't handle piracy. They only handle the content of the media, which means that any DVD that is approved is free of violence and approiate for viewing.

Piracy is under a different body. So even if there is a sticker from MDA, doesn't mean that it's not pirated.

Interesting news indeed.... :huh: Any other updates? Seems like pretty slow on the police side I feel. I mean, this has been ages right? :S

Whew! Cool! Was the sales-man you-kno-who? (S_l_m_n)
He didn't seem one bit friendly when i asked him about a Coin magic DVD. He seemed to care about money more... :mellow:

Hmmm.. Any updates on this? Just curious how does the Police deal with such cases.

Unfortunately, I was one of the victims of this shop's overpriced products.
They seemed so fantastic, with a few branches and also calls themselves the biggest magic shop in Singapore. :angry:

I managed to find out only after one of kaki's told me about them. Sadly, I've already spent close to 150 dollars in their shop. :(

But nontheless, at least I didn't get cheated a lot more. :rolleyes:

I don't think there will be any more updates unless those youngsters are members of Singapore Magic Circle forum.

They sell not only over-priced items but low quality, infact pirated items!
They target new magicians, passer-by and even foreigners.

I strongly dislike the way they are doing their business.

So how "overpriced" is their product? Compare to what?

Overpriced in their product like the deck from E($3 or $5 more expensive than other shop and sometimes more). I feel i was cheated when i bought an Moving Pip from MH with $35 and an Invisible deck of $15 or $10(i forgot). LOL
But now, after reading so much thread about this MH, i'll never went back there again.

yes... their produce are more expensive and i know they selling piracy dvd

If you indeed bought a deck of ID for $10 or $15, that is cheap, FYI. Again, for E decks, $3 to $5 more expensive compared to WHERE?

I mean you can't expect them to sell you "online" proces right? They have overheads, rental and probably Solomon's salary to pay. YOu cannot say they are expensive, full-stop, w/o thinking about the reasons behind.

Look, the decks at Magic Wand are actually even more expensive than MH.

Anyway, at the risk of offending people, I would say many people were unhappy NOT because their DVDs were pirated, but more so because they bought pirated stuff at the price of the original.

Probably nobody would complain if they had bought them at $20 a piece.

Hi Muscleaxl, thanks for your input. No offence to you, but you seem to trying to 'justify' Magic Hall's reason for overpricing their products and making it seem like there's no big deal in selling pirated materials. :huh:

I doubt you were cheated by them, and unlike anyone of us, you seem to be insensitive to the others that fell into their unscrupulous tactics. :unsure:

I agree that nobody pointed a gun at our heads to enter the shop and to 'willingly' hand them our hard-earned money. But at the end of the day, why do people put the blame on those 'magic black stone' con-men instead of mentioning that their victims, helpless old ladies are not 'smart' enough to detect their lies in the first place? :angry:

I read Ning's and JC's take on retail shop, that is if you can't handle the overheads, don't open a magic shop at all. Its not ethical to overprice as well as promote piracy just to justify their rental and salary.

I couldn't help but totally agree with that statement. :)

Last but not least, when you said that nobody would complain if pirated materials were sold at $20.
It makes me wonder if you're telling people that it is ABSOULTELY alright to promote piracy if you were to JUSTIFY selling it at pirated prices. :blink:

I just hope that nobody will misunderstand your message and start pirating materials and retailing it online or anywhere else for $10 a piece.

Just my 2 cents worth, coming from someone who was cheated. :D

Thank you!

Melinda
:wub:

Hi Melinda,

You are not the first one who thinks I am an advocate for MagicHall (maybe won't be the last), but you can ask those old timers in the forum to see if that is true.

I don't earn a single dime regardless of what MH does. They also don't pay me for "speaking out" for them.

Believe me, I really hope that people would stop piracy and there will be world peace. But just because I hope doesn't mean this is how the world is really like.

I am not FOR piracy, I am NOT for dishonesty... and I am certainly NOT for hypocrisy.

I think people should treat Axl's posts with a neutral mindset and you will understand him better.

If you read them with the mindset that you should support a certain side, that is being unjustice to what he has written and untruthful to yourself.


You can blame MH for selling pirated but you can't blame them for overpricing their decks and certain authetic tricks. You have choices. If you do not want to purchase online, certainly be prepared to pay more buying at a brick and mortar shop.

I believe enough complaints and accusations have been made of MH.
I appreciate people sharing their stories and experiences and the MODs are always trying to guide us to spare a thought for certain things.

You should always look on the other side of the coin.


It is unethical from a business viewpoint to overcharge by justifying you need to pay for overheads and such while you need not but not from a magic viewpoint.

If is unethical from an art viewpoint to sell pirated products to earn more money but is it ethical or unethical from a business viewpoint?

You decide for yourself.


Long live True Magic.

Melinda,

There is really nothing wrong in discussing business models even if it may be unscrupulous and unethical. Technically, there is really nothing call unscrupulous or unethical in business, there is only profitable or unprofitable.

Discussing business operating models is one thing, endorsing it is yet another. Discussing about it doesn't mean endorsing it. I haven't seen Axl actually endorsing their practices.

Awareness has been raised about their so called 'unethical' business model and practices. The objective has been achieved. It is still up to the rest to decide whether they want to continue to patronize the shop or not. We cannot force anyone not to patronize the shop. Let's not get too worked up over it. Anyway i believe this topic has been discussed to death in the forum already, we'll leave it at it is, shall we?

Hiya! Thanks for the input. It's good to receive feedback about issues that generate different viewpoints from different people. :P

I guess at the end of the day, the coin always has two sides. Some people have been cheated, some have not. So it's impossible that this issue can concluded with a similar mindset other than that of Magic Hall practising ILLEGAL activities in their premises. :huh:

But whatever it is, thank you guys for opening my eyes even more. I believe there are no supporters of Magic Hall in this forum, but I also believe not everyone here have been cheated by them. B)

MagicalLobo and mudbuddha, thank you for sharing your views. I really appreciate it. Both of you have shown me that no doubt there are insensitive people here in this forum, there are still good people like you guys who are actually concern about others here, and that, you heroes will always be around to save the day! Both of you deserve the utmost respect from me and everyone here in this forum! :wub:

Mudbuddha, I give you my word that as far as I'm concern about this Magic Hall topic, you will not be hearing any comments from me anymore. :D

Melinda
:wub:

Yeah, most of the people in this forum knows about MH's pirated DVDs and overpricing their products. It will remain this way unless someone sues MH for infringement of copyrights.

P.S. I believe you're referring to muscleaxl as insentive :lol:

Oh no, I have suddenly become unethical and insensitive.

Anyway...

1. For those who know, my experiences of being "cheated" went all the way back before there was even a Magic Hall (aka "$25- a- trick"). So don't assume I don't know anything about paying high prices for magic.

The only difference is: I don't go around whining about it.

2. Ok, I have zero sensitivity. But guess what? No amount of my sympathy or apathy is going help to get your money back.

So instead of offering you all the "oh-so-poor-thing" kind of empty comfort, I can only say learn your lesson, move on and not buy from them again.

If you want to really hurt them back, hit them at their pockets.

In any case, I believe it is right to inform others of unethical and dishonest practises. Even I do it from time to time (honestly... check the the topics), but keep in mind, don't get emotional about the whole thing.

Lol cud'nt take it had to make a reply. Axl ur hilarious, and yes i'm one who understands Axl's take on things. Well i guess it really boils down to knowing the sources for good magic and product knowledge. I'm sure everyone has their own fair share of being 'cheated' on magic. It can almost be considered like and initiation already.

Shock when i see this post.!

So what's the latest updates? Magic Hall close down already?

Because i thinking of going there to look for some products which i saw cheaper than Magic castle singapore. And some supplies.

MDA don't deal with piracy?
Then Magic castle singapore recently declare that all their DVDs are approve by MDA, they said in their website that they got MDA approval for their DVDs products, so all their DVDs is with licences.
It means that they said their DVDs is original.
So if DVDs are approve by MDA, is it original? Or may not be?

This their claims: http://magiccastle.com.sg/index.php?option...e&id=5&Itemid=5

Whether is it original or not, it depends on the dealer and the product itself in the end.

MDA only verified that the Title and Content of the DVD or Video is approved for viewing that does not promote pornography or discrimination to the society.

You should go to the MDA website to check the actual meaning of the approval license.

So for piracy, it is actually under another body or police to check that these items are being duplicated without the knowledge of the producer and these are so called pirated disc.

Larry

I am now really confused... Since Magic Hall is actually dealing with piracy, why does the police and the authorities close down their shop. It actually quite crazy to be doing pirated business out in the day broadlight in shopping centres too. I guess the only 'legal' stuff that they really sell is the decks, tricks that are so old and common that they put their name on there and props.

So can you tell me guys what's the best shop to buy Magic Gimmicks Cards/Things?

If you guys do sell gimmicks or graff cards, please message me :D

Seriously, when i started magic, Magic Castle sell the bicycle decks at $8, everyone also buy no complain, until my dear friend from SMC sell it to me at $3.50 per deck when i buy 3 dozens of them.

Then i bought an underground trick from Solomon at $55, till now no many knows how to do it, and i really feel that its very worth it!

Just because we are now expose to the freedom and luxury of information, doesnt mean everything should DROP PRICES!!! And because everything drop prices, thats why, all the young magicians knows so much sleights, tricks, and methodology, but few can even perform well in terms of sleights skill and the presentation AKA pattering. No one treasure and enjoy the fact that they learn a new magic!

Seriously, what is ethical in the Magic Industry? You mean by the fact that you can just buy "Magic" off a website is ethical? By letting public know that you can learn the "tricks" behind a certain tricks is ethical? And if you can use money to buy the "secret" then how is that even Magic in the first place? Hmmm....




Seriously guys, do away with the "ethical" discussion, if you dont favor the doing of a place then dont visit. I think the statistic will favor to "people who talk about magic" compare to "people that practice and perform to others"

Intellectual Property -- Try IPOS (Intellectual Property of Singapore)

http://www.ipos.gov.sg/topNav/hom/

Hey.

I just thought to share that if you feel ripped off when you purchase a product not up to standard, you can go to CASE and let them know.

My uncle has sought their help to successfully resolves some disputes with other kinds of businesses before.

Cheers
CSJoshi

Magic Hall isn't all that bad. Yes they are dealing with pirated copies of DVDs and most of the times overpricing items, but if you know what you're looking for and what to avoid, there are still stuffs you can get from them. A bridge sized deck of bicycle, for example. A white ghost invisible deck, a white ghost stripper deck. I can't find these items anywhere else that are of a lower price. Heck, I can't even find anywhere else that sell these items.

Bottomline is, stay away from the DVDs, but the special cards are still alright.

P.S.: Before you guys start debating about using a bridge-sized deck of cards, I just want to say I don't practice with them. They are only used to show people that they can make assumptions when properly presented to them (James Randi, TedTalks) :D