Actually, nothing's like having a real life teacher for a trick really, no books, tapes, pictures, DVD can come close. So in that sense, learning a trick is value from the magic castle for money.

BUT.......i was wondering, is that well, "ethical"? I doubt it's original material they came up with themselves. Even if they did modify it a little from whatever method they got it from, is it modified "enough" to be considered original?
Sometimes i feel like all the magic dealers keep harping on copyrights and non exposure and stuff, but they are contridicting it themselves at times.

I remember some time ago ellusionist or pengiun had an instant download trick called "Impossible Prediction". The effect is basically spec somehow manages to guess all the colors of a stack of cards. Now this is a super old trick, in fact, one of the 1st tricks i learn out of a book back in the 80s called "Out of this World", the trick itself probably goes back further. So it is ok for them to take an old trick, give it a new name, and make a profit out of it??
At the same time, they will complain about people reselling books and DVDs and how you cannot "resell" the knowledge of the secret etc etc....

Now to me it's like saying, "we can make money however we want because we are magic dealers, but you guys are not so it's morally wrong for you to sell anything".

Personally, i am extremely against irresponsibility with your magic knowledge, meaning leaking it out to people who dun have an active and real interest in magic. People who after knowing the secret will only "ooooohhhhhhh" and shout out the secret the next time they see someone else performs it.
But sometimes i cannot help but feel that the "moral ethics" imposed upon us are just ploys by magic dealers to be lucrative....

My 2 cents...


Cheers

Yeah, that's exactly what i mean. Dealers preaching about respecting the work of magicians yet they are making a profit from doing the opposite. But if we do it, it's unethical and immoral.....

I have a good mind to allow teaching of tricks in Marketplace....
...BUT, let's wait think about it for a while and see how the trend goes...


Cheers

I think it is perfectly fine for magicians to share their skills and learn from each other, whether it's presentation or a particular sleight.
The difficulty to me is how do you identify a "magician"? what must a person be able to do before he/she is considered a magician? I know for sure that being able to answer a few magic trivia questions doesn't make anybody a magician. What about somebody completely new to magic but is interested in learning? Do we teach them? How do we know if they will still be interested next week/next month/next year and not become that smart alec that tells everyone how did the magician "did it"?

Your views on this?


Cheers

I may be out of topic, but, i (heard) Republic Poly has a magic club..
and you know, the teacher, actually gave alot of exposure on all the sleights, pass/shift, DL, false shuffle, classic force...blar blar..all in just one lesson, and also THE FIRST lesson..

what crap...if i'm not an interested party, i can jolly well walk away in the 1st lesson n know how ALOT of magic tricks are done...freaking idiot club..
and i (heard again), the 1st lesson, there's more than 80 ppl....haiz..

i just go there to get bike decks $4.50 is cheap ^^ other then that i would rather order online lol

i second that..
so i rather go for a trade of tricks than getting paid :)

ya, and i mean, i feel i dun think teaching magic and earning money are a good thing..ermz..
let me explain, nemesis uses some sleights, but, i consider it orginal, cuz, it's of an original rountine cum no other tricks have the near-same effect..
so, i think that's fine :)

BUT,
tricks offered like, "Out of the World" is not fine with me, it's exactly the same with the original effect, or tricks like "quamtam bandits", which happens to be a 100%duplicate of the original version, "the crazy man handcuff"...
that, i find is not okay...

u can teach some tricks that uses the sleights available, but not entirely duplicating the original trick...hmm...
haha...anyway, hope this clafy my saying ;)

The problem is magic has a small market. Inventors cannot afford people to teach their inventions without receiving anything for it.

If the guys were to teach you Blizzard, then you'd probably have to own the effect first and pay extra for the pointers. Just like owning a textbook first and getting private tuitions. I think you guys will understand it more if you have some inventions in the market. I don't think you'll be happy if someone starts teaching your effect without your consent.

Althought we are teaching other's effect we are using our own way and teaching and from our experiences. The effect maybe the same but the patter and the presentation might be different.

I'm not very supportive in allowing magician to teach trick for a fee in a discussion forum like this. If someone were to ask how to do this or that trick, I will rather direct them to books or videos which will teach them on that particular tricks.

If you charge people for a trick in a forum like this, then I believe most of us will start to become selfish.

Why?

Its because magicians will not refer wannabe to the correct source but make a profit from it for themself by teaching them.

When that happens people who don't practise well in the trick will definately want to profit from the tricks also. He won't be able to teach them through experiance as they do not have it.

A discussion forum is suppose to be a place for discussion. For us to share ideas. Not a place to charge wannbe for a trick. I find that its not the appropriate place for teaching magic for a fee.

-----------------------------------------------
Oz Pearlman, Brad Christian and Daryl etc...

Well, if it weren't for them, I wouldn't have been posting here. They teach you Magic is a different kind of presentaton. Would you rather read books or view a video? And of course, to be fair to the inventor to the tricks. They should give credits to them. In this way, we will know who invented it. We will know who's books to look out for. A good example is Daryl's video. He credited most of his tricks to the inventor.

What's more? These magicians actually spend the time and effore to setup a shop or school to teach magic to wannabe. To prevent people for teaching other people tricks, they charge them a sum of money.

They teach throught their experiance. They tell us what to look out for. A very good example is learning 2 card monte from a book and learn the 2 card monte from Kard Klub - One of Brad Christian's video. Brad teaches it from his own experiance. He evern showed videos of himself showing the trick to people on the street.

Its them who compile tricks, sleights into a video to teach people. Yes, they might be taught on a book or by some other people. But will you know where to find those tricks/sleights if they didn't teach you?

They learn from their mentor to teach you. And when you teach other people, you teach them from your experiance.

Wao lol... To me I agree some of it and some I don't really agree. Yes we can recommend you video and video of learn. But when we teach you a trick we not charging you for the tricks itslef but the value experience we gain along the way. Normally my way of doing is such. I will teach people a trick and recommend then videos related to the trick to help them improve lol. If you know a trick eg 2 cards monte I will just teach you ways in improving it and its all from my experience and its free. No point charging for the tricks you already know right lol. Don't you agree with me Pseudo?? :lol:

Yeah man... I quote that also... Gave an example of Brad Christian teaching from his experiance in Kard Klub. Teaching us how to deal with people etc...

But I really have to choose who to teach just hate those who wan to learn and show off only. Can even do basic wan to learn advance tricks. lol. SO I really hope those who wan to learn from me is geniune like this art and not wan to show off to girls or friends that you are special. If wan to show off to girls do it to Ning and she wil teach you a good lesson lol...

Yeah man... must test them to see if they are sincere. Really need lots of patients to learn...

Actually there is no way to test. But I can tell by the first time we met. Cos if someone wan me to teach them magic, I will meet up one day to do a intro session and see for myself how they look at magic. So I can tell by their body language and the way they talk about magic.

In my opinion, magic can't be taught: only learnt. I've learnt so much from magic by watching and doing, and that can't be taught anyhow.

But if you're talking about effects, then that's fine with me. Anybody can expose/teach an effect... it's just ethics/teaching capability that gets in the way. For example, a dude exposes all of my effects after a performance is a downright airhole, but if say, Huron showed me this awesome effect, he'd probably teach me and still be in my good books ;) it's all just a matter of circumstance.

-Kev

Heyhey...
I test whoever wants to learn magic.
I start by teaching them the Charlier Cut and tell them to come back to me in three weeks and show me double handed rolling charliers. If they bother to practise then come back to you, you probably got your man.

The thing that really puts me off about those who want to learn magic is this: They learn for a while then suddenly stop and lose interest because of 'stagnance'. But hey, isn't magic all about improvisation and entertainment? Stopping because of lack of material only reveals your lack of passion. Nuff said. :D
Huron

Whether u like it or not there sure bond to have money making magician and it's their right to do so! Whatever it is, still what is your philosophy in life more important. I do magic tricks to motivate people! Normally either teaching or showmanship it is to motivate people and magic can comprise of creative thinking, problem solving, self-appreciation & enhancement and other positive thinking that u can create in magic! I do not require super sleek sleight of hand but more on personal touch or feeling toward another is more important. B) B)

;) You guys should not discuss on bread and butter issue as SOLOMON also want to "cari makan". I really respect them as their shop still exist for a long time in PRINCE Theatre! They have they're own method in salesmanship which promote magic! U guys have your on principle in magic teaching which I also salute! But "CARI MAKAN" Issue and the "Magic" as an Art is totally different story. If u really like magic and to be a performer u tends to go miles for the sources and usually in a cheaper ways but for people who tends just to boast on the performance what they need is only the routine and patters definitely THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT! Importantly is, are you happy with your magic knowledge? If so how good you are? I think just to create your own routine will cause you months of practice and confidence. SO CONCENTRATE ON IT!! ;) ;)

to answer the question,

magic cannot be taught for free due to exposure reasons, unless the other guy is an experienced magician.

as for teaching for a fee, the magic taught should not be a marketed effect as that is unethical. if it is a classic effect or moves and is not protected by copyright laws (50 years after death), then it should be alright.

Many magicians nowadays teaches magic...
U'll be shocked that some of the best magicians teach for a fee, and which they can be just as good as soloman in sleights, if not better, just that they do not have a shop and they are not well-known...
I think those are the undergrounds magis in sg, msia or china...
(I've seen such a magi from china in msia, when i went there for a short break, he is great, he did a pass, right in my face, and i could not see anything even though he told me to watch carefully, and i'm staring right in the cards, before and after, his hand never really moved much, but the cards still changed...
He refused to teach me hw to do it though, fyi..:( )

If you really happen to find them, they'll teach u for a fee..and if you feel soloman is great, wait till you watch them, they'll(some) be around his standard, it's just that they have no wish to be make popular or famous IMHO...haha...

Well, it depends on who is it and when is it.
Personally I go by a short set of rules...

Rule 1: If they immediately ask you to teach them after a trick, no.
Rule 2: If they ask you to teach them after an entire routine, no.
Rule 3: If the crowd disperses then they ask you, ask them to go to the library and tell them to look under 793.8 and then bring you a book from this index.
Rule 4: If they call you up, yes. But ask the person to bring you a pack of brand new cards tomorrow.
Rule 5: If you find them kneeling outside your doorstep in a stormy day with thunder and lighting, drenched to the point of tissue paper in a toilet bowl... then tell them you'll consider.

...

OMG! I just noticed I'm off topic. But i'll just leave the above stuff there...

I blieve tat its ok to sel the stuff like that. Imean, look at Soloman when e teache someone a trick. He spends so much time and effort. Sometimes, noobs (like me) demand that he teach them te hardest things (not like me). He tries to tok them out of it but if he cant he'll try his best to do so... After seing ti, I believe hat he's ot really just doin it for the money. And sometimes, (when you're close enough to him), he'll even teach you some free stuff that he himself uses. This doesn't really come to me as something the profitists would do... I dunno~

if someone is really interested in learning, i personally find nothing wrong with teaching for a fee. afterall, it is also an avenue for learning...

Its like reclaiming your costs. (all those videos and stuff)

It is okay to teach magic for free, to me.
:rolleyes:
Huron

"How you do that, teach me leh."
"Ok!"
"Really!? Wow!"
*Magician proceeds to do some ridiculous flourish*
"WTF! I meant makeing the card come to the top!"
"Oh that? I have no idea how I did that part of the trick too..."
"..."

haha... that is friggin ...dotz... i think that yah... if people are really interested and are serious, then why not? aniwae, my friend taught me a sandwich then i started from there... buying videos, borrowing resources, etc. if people are really interested and are provided the kickstart, then they will continue on their methods...

juz my 2 cents worth

Yeah.. i agree that its not easy to find a really interested guy who wanna commit 100% to the art of magic. I have been approached by many of my frens and frens frens to teach them magic.... i always say no...

those who dont know will just say u are selfish la.... (that's coz they dont understand the long night practicing magic on my bed with card flying all over etc etc.... they think its so simple.. lol... nothin is easy without practice man)

well i guess they can think watever they want. I mean i spent like couple of thousands already on my magic and of course i wont just teach for free. i mean if they wana learn i guess they have to first of all be v v v keen on learning... and so far i have not met anyone who is really keen where i live.

Somehow i always wish i can earn some money back by teaching.. but just cant find the right student. all in all i just feel that magic is a great investment that u will not regret for life.. u know it and u can perform the rest of ya life.... think abt that!

yes, for those who are genuinely interested, you can provide them support and stuff, refering them to resources, etc. but i dont think they should even learn a trick free. the process of sourcing out stuff is i think the only way to sort out the genuinely interested to a interested-for-a-moment guy. True that teaching a trick can provide a kickstart, but majority of people are not genuinely interested...

absolutely agree with u there Gordie :) let them source the magic out themselves.. we just give guidance... then we can see how serious there are in learning and practicing the art.

Maybe lets say you do an ACR and after that if the person is interested. You explain that you got this from dvds and etc... Then ask the person to do some research, explain to him the name of this routine and ask him to go and find it.

If the guy do bother to go and find it, he might have a 20% chances to get into the art of magic, the rest of the 80% will have to depend on himself after getting that effect he wanted.

From what's we've heard abt u so far... it's kinda suprising that there's magic u DON'T KNOW! :lol:

hmm.... wel... i was one of those who was kickstarted... glad to say i continued all e way till todae... but those experienced people who juz love to expose tricks to laypeople are really *******. i think those people should be shot or sumthing...

trouble these days is so many thing available through the internet. sigh... its a not a good thing. people know where to search for free magic and stuff. penguin magic is all over the net!!! is that bad or wat?