hi, i would just like to hear the views of you people on ellusionist and penguinmagic.

i've notice lately, after serveral purchase of their products that ellusionist don't really give credit to the creator of the moves.
brad would usually say that he kind of forgotten the names of these people and just move on with the trick. whereas, penguinmagic, for eg, oz pearlman always do say the creator's name.

can you actually grade the quality between the videos made by ellusionist and the videos made by penguinmagic? by doing this, are we actually forgetting the history of magic? or are people just so ignorant about people's hardwork and only think of making money?

uh... again?

woo, for brad i think some of the time he do mention the trick was by who and who. i only remember watching 1 of the vid where he said he forgotten who invented it was the invisible pass. :huh:

thx for the replies.. yea.. i watched a few videos where brad always says he's forgetting the names and stuffs but anyway, moving on with the trick. matter of fact, i don't actually like the way brad does his stuff. we paid for magic videos but he included his rant. like, it's totally out of the point..

as for m*gic c*stle, can the smc do something about it? i've seen admins laying it out serious about piracy, isn't this piracy too? aren't they selling the tricks to their own gain?

uh? you mean this topic have been posted before? :blink:

I believe this issue has been discussed in many of the other threads before. MC or SM are just doing business, ethical or not it is up to the individual. And I do not think the admins will be able to do anything about it either. :)

SMC can only try to control/ stop piracy within the forum but not outside of it. Read the old threads to know more about what has been posted regarding this issue.

right.. got it :P

erm...although the tricks he taught are not invented by him so ever... he forgot names & blah blah...
Well i think he really did his stuff well...
eg..the way he teach in his videos are very in detailed and understandable.

sorry :off: hahakz...

but that is my opinion about him..
...JUST AN OPINION...

:P

When you buy a magic DVD.. You are using it to learn the technical handling of the sleights and the routine and not to judge the person who produce the video if he is good or not.. He is doing the effect according to his style.. If you don't lie it learn the handling and rountine and come up with your own style to do that effect be creative and not copying every single move and worng the perfromer in the video do cos it may not suit your taste and style.. :D

i dunno man, i was really irritated when he was ranting, totally waste of time.. so i thought, his stuffs weren't as good. comparing to oz, oz does thing more detailed. he tells you your angle and what to take note of. haha.. maybe you guys differ.

since you guys could bear with brad, no wonder they are still up and running :x (just kidding) :P

plus oz doesn't rant!

I think u are seriously wrong abt the rant part. Most of his videos are meant for beginners. Wat beginner tend to do is juz learning the sleights. And thats it! But what brad is telling to tell us, or me is that there are other important things to take note other than the sleights itself.

Perfecting other elements are equality important to perfecting the sleight. Even though there are alot of speech on his video, but for beginners, the knowledge is worth the effort.

As least as a beginner in the past, i feel that his rant is good for me, as beginner will tend to be too ambitious and think they can do it off shelves. Unless you are going into knowing how it was done onli. Then i have nothing to say.

As for Oz, yes he was good. But he din teach his move telling u abt the angles, blah blah blah. Maybe for some. But some video of his. he mentioned that there is this angle. But how to tackle? Figure it out urself. which is hmm, to me bad and good.

So conclusion, there is no bad or good teaching, juz whether u get used to which type of teaching. :)

IMHO, both Oz Pearlman AND Brad Christian teaches really well. If you wanna know what "ranting" is, go check out Brian Tudor. His monotone "left fourth finger and right thumb goes above and under "X" card" seriously bores me to tears.

But, I digress.

Oz's method is to teach with function, and with direct technicality. Brad's method is more focused on presentation...to squeeze that bit of magical "oomph" out of that effect. Oz's advice will work very well if you're seriously a newbie. There's something that Brad "rants" about where many magic practioners who do not belong in the "newbie" category still take for granted: How "smooth" you perform an effect.

The emphasis in that aspect is careful attention on not just mastery of the moves, but also the performance presentation.

However, watching ANY videos can induce a form of complacency where the student simply imitates the exact movements and flair of the teacher. If you're a constant victim of that and you can't seem to invoke any creativity within yourself, try reading books instead. That can really stir your mind up when it comes to fabricating new routines.

i'm learning from both oz and brad.
and i'm very happy with the way they teach! ^_^

well i dont think ellusionist is that good a place to buy tricks. Brad christian rocks but ellusionist sucks. yeah they do not give credit and look at the ridiculous prices they are offering. "chance zero" aka out of this world for that price? lol and look at revolution 16.95 us bucks for this kinda tricks (those who have bought it u would know ) :D i still feel that penguin is much better in terms of quality of products but brad and oz really teaches well. haha

Mod's note: post edited, please write in proper english.

haha.. what amaze me is the tenkai vanish.AKA "throw vanish"

spasgnome i agree lol. you feel absolutely ripped if u buy revolution.

well for a comparison, penguin's system is much more transparent and more down to earth to its users.

ellusionist's site i feel isn't as organised as penguin, but they have a larger repetoire(is that the right spelling...? or even the roght word...?) they've got ads on cable running... basically i think they've been popularised by the tiger and viper deck A LOT.(correct me if im wong)

as for crediting the orginal creators, i really feel that brad christian should go and find out who was the originator... and include it in the vid. Heck, penguin puts the creator's name right next to the name of the trick... Ellusionist really dosent do the originators justice. (maybe except for Le Paul, haha, Brad Christian's always praising him lol)

but in terms of teaching, i guess both manage to get the message across, its just that Oz goes into more detail. for some of Brad's vids i think that his idea is for you to already have a certain level of grounding in magic for you to be able to learn from him. that's why he merely brushes over some minor details... yup thats about it. B)

Ellusionist? I try to stay away from that site. Personally, I bought revolution...yes, you might think I'm silly. Well, kinda, but I was so intrigued by Magic performed by friend, so I went onto the internet and visited ellusionist.com. Saw that so many things were selling at crazy prices, the cheapest was Revolution. And the way they advertised their buyers' reviews, I was hooked in...so yea, I paid about $27 for that trick. HAHA. After that i felt stupid...my friend kinda scolded me for buying frm ellusionist. My first ever trick in magic...

But that spurred my interest in magic then i found penguinmagic which i found to be so much better than ellusionist...my friend also started teaching me...

So yea, ellusionist did their job by making me interested to buy, only to make me find out that there're other better sites around.

To me , ellusionist sucks! I bought the crash course 2 and Ninja 2 and it sucks like hell. Crash Course 2's sleights are so basic. I almost know everything taught inside ecept for the pop-up move. And for Ninja 2 , they are only slightly better. The 2 passes taught inside was like sh*t. I hate them to the core. But i preffer penguin. Although the demos are not that catching as ellusionist , the tricks are far more better than penguin. I wasted my one month's allowance on the stupid ell vid. In conclusion , not all glitters are gold. Meaning , the packaging of ellusionist is so nice , but the product inside is useless. Hope this helps and whoever is reading this , i stroingly recomend you NOT to buy from ellusionist. Thanks for reading. B)

you sure penguin's that transparent? then i think u better go here.

i wouldnt say that all the ellusionist products "suck" etc..

i own a few of the videos and because im a beginner i personally feel that brad's teaching style helps me to understand the sleights clearly.

but i do agree that some of the ellusionist products are overpriced

Lolz. I still don't recomend ellusionist videos. Coz i already learnt most of tricks in the video.In the crash course 2 , i learn't nothing. In ninja 2 , it was bit better.... I learned the turn over pass and abit of tricks.... Penguin magic video are better. Local Productions are not bad too. Or you can also get a book. :D

I tink Brad and Oz are both great in their own ways. Brad has got these steadiness in him, the friendly magician. Oz is great with his sleight of hands, i tink he's really good with his sleight of hands.

In terms of teaching, i dun tink Brad forgot the names of the creator on purpose.. and if u expect him to include the name of the creator in the teaching video then maybe he'd need to skip that move and not be able to teach the move in the video because of the fact he forgot. But it's always nice to acknowledge the creator of the move, like the way Oz is doing. If i am to invent my own moves, i would want it to be remembered 20 years later as a move by me.

I am afraid i have to disagree with you Larry. I don't agree with what you say about picking up another interest if people find magic being expensive. Anybody who wants to take up the art of magic should be allowed to and not let monetary constraint stop them. When magic starts to become expensive to someone, what he/she has to do is to be more resourceful and find other ways to learn new tricks. I don't think anyone should ask anybody to give up magic because of money. I am not trying to start an arguement with you dude. Just to express how i feel. Because personally i am very very constraint by money but that hasn't stop me from learning new effects. Just have to be more resourceful.