After reading through some of the threads posted, I realized that many of you don't really have a very high opinion of Ellusionist and Penguin. Can anyone tell me why?

In fact, I had learnt a lot from both, especially Oz Pearlman's Born To Perform. I mean, for a beginner like me, sources to learn from are hard to find and both websites gave me the chance to actually learn some powerful magic (instead of those 21-cards kind of kiddy tricks).

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For my case, it was also ellusionist that started me off. I always wanted to learn magic tricks but all i found was those shop that sells fake insects...fake knifes till i saw the ellusionist website. Maybe the problem is that ellusionist advertise too much and many laymen can just buy it too. Well...i was once layman too...

and last time i saw this guy make a classified ad on the newspaper teaching magic tricks for $50 an hour....lol...wonder if anyone buy it...

I think Penguin doesnt rate very high among magicians because they sell a lot of stuff which are knock offs of other people's creations without paying royalty or crediting the creators.

I'm sure its been posted here before but in case you missed it here's an interesting website :-

http://www.magicunlimited.com/magic_fakers.htm

See something you own in there?

Plus their recent much publisized problems with Jay Sankey didnt help them either.

E when they first started out, often didnt credit the creators of the moves either/ or they changed the names of the effects. I think they may have cleaned up their act today but not sure as I dont buy their products.

I'm a supporter of Ellusionist!!!

But still, not all their products are that good they proclaimed it to be. It's scary to see every products there are marketed by them to be graded "10/10", "excellent buy" in their forums. (darn!)

Why the people here in the forum are against E and PM, is cos of what rain king has pointed out. There are others who beg to differ...like some said that Brad from E has too much make up on his F$%$ face so..lolx...they dun like E. And as a matter of fact, when E started out, Brad did try to credit the origins of the tricks; some of it though...like in classic pass, he did say sorry as he didn't konw who is the first person who perform the trick. But nevertheless its not an excuse.

Of course there are some who thinks both E and PM are trying to rip more and more poeple off with other people's trick but just doing a different version or variation of it.

Its just like in pasar malam...those suckers just show the passer bys cheap tricks which we used to learn like $20 to $30 bucks? Just that E is doing it more professionally with marketed effect? So if you think in most of the people's point of views, (those that started magic before Ellusionist even came to market) its like seeing some pasar malam guy showing everyone all the tricks and not crediting them. And if you are the creator, it sorta disgust you.

Nevertheless thats just my personal view...I may be wrong?? lolx But i think the point about Brad's eyelid might be right

Ok....i might draw a little flake this this post....but heck, i'm just gonna say it.....

The more old material and books I read and come across, the more I think the whole who has legal rights to what is a little crappy. :P

Most of the effects that are in existant today, including a lot of "new" effects have been invented and re-invented dunno how many times since don't know when. Granted, there are some that are complete new innovations, but generally speaking, these are really not common.

HOWEVER........

Law and rights should not be all that governs our actions. There are things like basic manners and courtesy.The "Be Nice" factor.
Example: If I create a brand new effect and market it. And one day i attend a magic show where the performer uses it. I don't stand outside the exit and loudly proclaim to everyone that they can learn that trick for only $29.95 from my site.
Don't do things if you think it is going to offend people unnecessarily.

Which i think is the holding principle about the knock-offs and selling a cheaper version of someone's product.
Is it wrong? Technically, no. But will it make you unpopular with your peers? Probably.

My grip is only that most of the Instant Downloads are usually not worth the money (overpriced) but I suppose if someone is too lazy to go read a book or watch a few DVDs, then they just pay more for it lor.

I guess it's even worse when someone who hasn't even gotten down the right way to perform something and is already trying to sell the secrets by teaching others for a fee, and in the process, pass on the wrong handling and the bad habits.