A friend of mine got into magic recently (after I refused to teach him the 2 Card Monte).

Anyway, he told me last week that he got himself a Ghost Deck, a Black Tiger Deck and a Split Spade Deck. In addition, he ordered a Subterfuge and the 3 vol of Project by Daniel Garcia.

I was quite shocked at his purchases. When I asked him why he bought those, he said that the guys at the magic shop told him they were all good stuff. I just smiled.

1. I don't know how many of you here like those fancy decks (Tiger, Viper, Ghost etc) but somehow I think performing with an ordinary or ordinary- looking deck will make the effect better. Cos spectators, when they see a special looking deck, will think it's a gimmicked deck and will raise their suspicions straight away. For me, I only have a Tally Ho Viper which was given to me as a birthday gift, but I have never used it in performance. I still prefer my blue/red bikes.

2. I think as a beginner in magic, one shouldn't use too many gimmicked stuff. We should learn more sleight-of-hands tricks to hone our skill and also, to create a image in our spectators' mind that all our tricks are really impromptu. So when next time, they would not be suspicious when we really use a gimmick.

3. I don't know why the shop people recommend Project to my friend, as I think Daniel Garcia's stuffs are really quite advanced for him (even for me). I think Born to Perform should be a very good choice but I think they don't carry it. Sounds to me they are just trying to rip my friend off.

Anyway, just some opinions of mine....

You are right.

Your friend is going down the wrong path. You can either be nice and stop him, or be evil and let him rot.

I know this because I had a friend like that too. 3 weeks and he has more DVDs than me. Extremely arrogant, doesn't practise, just too ego. Too eager till ego.

By the way, he has rotted.

Yea. I have a friend that is also going down that path. On his frist visit to a magic shop he already purchased the split spades deck. I get this feeling that he is just learning to show off.

hmmm .. im kind of like your friend too got rip off and everything at first but slowly learn after that and i learn magic because of curiosity and now i have been doing this for quite some time already. just wondering is it wrong? i thot everyone started because of Curiosity? :off:

when you are the shop owner... everything is good for your customer.

There are those who have a warehouse load of albums, yet can't play a musical instrument worth shit.

Then there are those who've "heard every joke in the world", but suck on delivery.

Just a thought.

-Kev H

I beg to differ. Unless you're talking about GL, most of the shops know what are the stuff suited for each individual's level. I for one would certainly recommend learning from people like Ammar instead of Vernon if you're just starting out.

Basically the individual has to be responsible and do a bit of homework too. It's just like if you want to buy an expensive piece of jewelry but know nuts about it. Definitely you will get ripped off by a dishonest salesman if you don't do your research.

yes, if im a shop owner everything is good but the least he can do is get something that is like my level? oh well.. maybe this is how some place work.

Seriously, you can leave your friend to rot or simply help him. His mentality will be "my friend can do it, why can't i ?", so in order to be better, he might have actually ask the Shop Owner for something advance. But this will cause him some problems as he doesn't have any basic fundementals of magic, sooner or later this will cause him to lose interests as he can't perform well, and can't do most of the stuff in Daniel Garcia.

Now all you can do is to help him, but it seems that he might be too Arrogant now, thinking that he have also "got into" magic.

It takes alot of commitment to practice and perform an effect to spectators, the only way is to guide him through using the Magician code.

For Decks wise, when new magician gets into magic, he will think everything is nice. Starting from a Normal SunCruise deck, i went onto Bicycle which cost me $7 during i started out, which was already good enough for me. Later on, decks like Black Tiger came out, it will be like "Wow, cool deck, i must get 1" but sooner or later, i ask myself this. "Do i need this for magic ? or just for showing off to my friends that i got such a cool deck ?" But there is 1 deck which is super cool enough .. *Looks at Kevin's Jerry Nugget Deck*

So in Magic, you can just ask him, do you really need this type of stuff at his level ?

For a New Magician learning cards, he should really get stuff like ETMCM or Daryl's Encyclopedia of Card Sleights.

Well, if he's really another Heckler's Magician on the rise, then it will be a pity, Subterfuge, Daniel Garcia Project Volumes will be a waste on him.

muscleaxl, what i can say is just to guide him if you can. Don't let him carry on with his path, he will just reach a dead end sooner or later.

Good Day ~

The only thing that come to my mind is..

RICH kids more and more nowadays.. Haha. :P

ohh how true dtjk.i have to agree on that. in the end become show offs. tsk.

haha the one thing that they show off will be the sleights/methods to doing it.

hopefully, if talking fails, they will quit magic after being booed like crazy for being lousy. ^_^

sometimes, people are not willing to start from basic. they want the best and best rightaway. not possible unless there is real magic :P

let's just hope that this kid will follow the magicians code and honour it. :D

P.S. i think that it's a good idea to put a page or something on the general code on every book/dvd/trick packaging!!! ^_^

Aaron

Well as for that kind of friends. Please let him rot. Honestly. I have seen enough hobbyists that don't make it up to the standard. I simply loathe seeing BAD magic. I loathe seeing people doing tricks without enough practice. Unless he has a willingness to learn, these kind of people do not deserve to learn magic.

How has magic evovled throughout the years? From a secretly well kept art to a vastly destroyed "hobby" around the world. Thanks to David Blaine, Criss Angel and also other TV magicians who simply can't present an effect properly, they have gave birth to a generation of people that don't deserved to be called magicians but just rather people who do "tricks" or worse, "stunts".

I guess nowadays all you need is tons of money and you can learn all the "magic" you want.

I think its time to relook at our magic and performance. Leave those "wannabes" alone and move on.

Thanks to Max Maven. If not for him, I won't be so angry about "magicians" nowadays.

Just curious, what did Max Maven say that got you so riled up? Or was it an article/essay? Care to share the link because it sounds like a good read anyways. ;)

Well i didn't know Max Mavens comments made such an impact on you. LOL

This i beg to differ slightly, although i agree with what you have said. Without all these "exposures" of magic on TV, there wouldn't be new presentations for old tricks as these TV magicians usually have to come up with a new presentation. Its like giving the tricks a new "rebirth". Secondly without all these exposures, there wouldn't be new talents. But out of that many talents, theres always crap that come along.

LASTLY I DETESTS THE *TOOOOOT* THAT DOES BAD MAGIC!!!!! :angry:

Haha. Link? It was a book that he wrote. Now the prices of the book sky rocketed mad. I just sold mine off at Ebay.

he should start off with basic videos that teaches him sleights.with so much beautiful decks on the market, its no wonder he sidetracked to buy those stuff.daniel garcia's material would be too hard for him to do

Let him rot is a good way. no point buying fancy decks. Unless for collection. having good videos and deck dont mean you are a good magician. Good videos but cant do or dont practice = waste.

He must be rich. Buy so much stuff when just started magic.

Give him sometime to rot. :D About 1 month's time should be enough?

Holy genocide, batman- I smell some Rwanda a-comin'!

There's a lot that's said, but not enough done- keep in mind that actions speak louder than words. Sure, we have a lot of crappy magicians nowadays (that being a subjective term)- do we react to that by making 13-page threads on obscure forums saying how much we loath and hate these people and wish they'd rot in a firey pit of their grandmother's filth, or do we, as (hopefully) dedicated practitioners of the art raise the standard that all these other magicians have, as you would say, "crappified"?

There's this saying in the world of NLP that "we don't see the things as THEY are, we see things as WE are".

If that's true, then what do threads like these say about us as magicians?

Moderation, cayotes- moderation.

-Kev

Its a phase, he'll regret wasting so much money on something he can't do and in the process enlighten the already much enlightened layppl of s'pore, raising the standards for everyone else ( which is not necessarily a good or bad thing) and consequently influence more of his ilk to do the same thing repeating the cycle and causing more and more insecure teenagers to look for quick self-gratification/affirmation through these means

I certainly hope if he starts magic with such videos... He realised how tough it is to learn magic and thus respect it.. If not.. Nothing much we can do about him..

... I was fervently searching for this thread so i could post some questions I had in mind.

By the time i found it, however, i forgot most of them. :wacko:

Anyway, i have a newbie magician friend also, and well, he's really interested in makin' magic. BUT... he seems like he really believes that it's magic, and not sleight of hand.

For example, PK cutlery routines. He's pretty convinced that if he picks up magic, he would be able to bend cutlery easily. He doesn't really look at magic as a skill or anything that needs practise. He thinks it's easy and like, real magic!

Has anyone else ever seen newbies to magic like this before? Should we still recommend them to continue learning?

Edited: should we recommend them to even START learning?

He sounds like someone who said, "How did you do that?" after you just performed an effect (Metal Bending in your case?).

Well, I feel like he just want to learn magic because he want to know the secrets.
After he knows the secret, he will be going "Huh? Thats it? Just like that?".
Thats just how lay people react to magic.

He believes its 'real magic'?
Thats what most layman thinks too.

Should we still recommend them to continue learning?
Well, I guess no.

Why?
He'll make a very good spectator. ^_^

Should we recommend them to even start learning?
We would end up with a lot of magicians then.

Wow.. I don't believe there are still people in Singapore who believed in "real" magic.

Anyway, let him learn first, if he don't really have the passion for it, he will quit sooner or later. If he has the passion, why not? Just educate him on the correct things, make sure he don't turn to the dark side and become a heckler.

Believe in real magic? Possible, if the effects looks really impossible. Then they will sure believe.

And yes, I lost the passion for awhile too because I was too buzy with so many other things. Got back into it eventually. I'll be more focused this time and manage my time more wisely.

People sure believe in "real" magic still. Just go down to the open area in front of Albert Complex around Bugis during afternoons and see how some of these quack doctors convince crowds they possess real magic. I'm not kidding.

Although a problem with buying so much high level stuff that I can think of is that he might eventually get "burnt" and just drop magic totally. Bad memories et al you know?

Believe it or not , my first gimmick was the M5 ellusionist was highly publisizing about . They said it could make you becaome a GOD . I was a naive 15 year old , new to magic and that particular `term' made me feel spending USD95.00 with FREE four pieces of A4 paper containing simple notes worth USD25.00 was a deal of a lifetime .

People started with the thumtip or svengali ..........It took me 3 1/2 months to save for that darn M5!...which I could have invested in basic books and DVDs

Newbies , get lost into the hype created by ads . We all do acctually ,but most of us (hopefully) learn from our past mistakes.

Quoting your talented mentalist Pam:
`People get fooled by magicians ,magicians however get fooled by dealers '

And face it , we as magicians often shy away from giving advice to our friends , leading them in the right path that is , on the correct way of learning the art .... why? we all know the reason...=)

Hmm... Come to think of it, when I first started out as well, it sorta went like this:

If I learn this, I WILL be able to cause cards to turn face up and face down!

instead of

I will learn how to make it LOOK like I can make cards turn face up and face down!

And yeah, I guess this is also how my friend feels. He's still saving up the cash though. ^_^

(by the way, thanks for the replies)

And this above is still the best post of the whole thread i think. B)

I actually used to be like that. I spent A LOT of money on things I couldn't do. I bought the System before mastering XB, I bought Ninja 1 and 2 when I haven't even mastered the stuff in BTPCM....I guess i was just caught up in the whole 'collecting materials" thing, ya know? I'm glad I'm past that phase. Now I'm trying to master everything in the 23 DVDs I have :g:

23 DVDs?!?!?! I don't even have bought so many DVDs before.

Kevin's post rocked. Yup. I realised that we should stop complaining and start taking action. By doing good magic ourselves and such.

What's wrong with doing millions of dollars worth of gimmicked magic. While some of you truely believe in your point, most of you guys are just jealous of guys who can afford to use the expensive cards on a day to day basis.

Just because the guy is buying gimmicks after gimmick, doesn't mean that he will rot and die and all that stuff. Instead. He will learn so much more than the magicians on SMC that go all 'ah. Beggggginner sould nort buy geemick and alll that stuv. Ya know?' In fact, Kevin and I both were gimmick whores. We know that, with dedication. That guy's going to be damn good.

With dedication.