Hello, I'm from SMU here. Anyone at all?

I am!!! which school are you from? I am from SIS year 2005 intake. I got another friend also in SIS and we both are activiy doing magic. we are thinking of setting up a magic club. maybe we can meet up when sch starts.

Hi Adrain,

Don't take this the wrong way, I meant no offence at all....

Please, not another magic club.

It seems like every polytechnic and educational institution out there is setting up one and personally, I'm really quite concerned with this trend.
Yes, a lot of us do it as a hobby and pasttime but magic is not exactly like scouting, where the more the merrier.
It's really a paradox of an art form because of the nature of it.

As a club, recuitment drives are inevitable to substain it and I really question the degree of wrongful exposure involved.
I am certain most of the people that you perform for will be curious about how it's all done and therefore might ask to join the magic club. But is this really the way to "spread magic"?
The result of this is a whole generation of 1/2 interested magicians who are curious about all the secrets and all things magic but don't really have the substained interest to pursue it properly.

By all means, meet up with fellow magicians to your convenience, in your school or your home area, that's why we have such sections in this forums.
But I really doubt what we need is ANOTHER magic club in an educational institution.

If you feel the need to belong to a club, then do check out IBM and SAM, both of which has international connections and are well established in Singapore.

Again, no offence intented. My 2 cents worth.


Cheers

Hi Aloy.

i understand where you are coming from. the reason why i would want to set up a magic club is to exposed more people to magic. my friend and i are coming up with a proposal. initially there will be people who just want to know the secret and join the magic club. i understand that will happen. i will not say that will not happen but we will try to put some hurdles for these people to join.

the people that we are targeting are those who sees and magic trick and will go back and ponder and ponder on that trick. many people do not have the chance to learn magic because they do not know where to look for. even i myself was curious from a very young age and at that age magic was something unexplanable. that is until i went Vagas for a holiday and bought my first magic trick. that is what i want, people to be exposed to their first magic trick. once they are exposed, if they are interested, we will help them carry on that passion. if they are not, i thank them and hope they enjoy any magic show they see and hopfully they will be interested.

i think let my friend and i come up with a solid proposal first before we decide to do anything. of course we will let some experience magician to go thru the proposal with us. anyway, thanks for your input. like you i also do not want any tom dick or harry know how it is done. we all paid a high price to reach where we are today and i am not willing to let any exposers destory it.

Cheers!

Adrian
to entertain. to amaze.

Hi Adrian,

I, too, understand where you are coming from. I started these forums in the first place because as a lone hobbist, I wanted to find some people who are also interested in magic, and understanding the difficulty of a lot of hobbists in finding peers who are interested in magic, to continue to keep this place open for public access so that nobody has the difficulty I had.
Your intentions and cause is noble and applaudable.

I shall not rain on your parade further but leave you 4 points to ponder over:

1) Is a curiousity to know how it's done a good enough reason to teach someone magic?
It is really common for people to want to know how a trick is done when they are performed to, unless the performer is really bad. It is almost the immediate question after seen a good magic trick. So much so that for our SMC t-shirt, we have the tag-line "How did I do what?" printed on the back in anticipation of their reaction.
What kind of hurdle will be able to filter out the serious from the not serious? How high do you have to set it?

2) Are you going to be a club where people come to discuss their existing knowledge? Or are you going to be a club that TEACHES them magic secrets or pointedly direct them to sources where they wouldn't normally take the effort to source out?
In here lies the very fine line of magic education and magic exposure, and where you draw it.

3) Is it really necessary to expose people to magic secrets in order to expose them to magic?
How about just exposing them to magic performances and thereby exposing them to the joy of enjoying a magic show? Would that be a worthy cause too?

4) Is the 2 magic clubs IBM and SAM in Singapore not enough and inadequate for those who are keen to take it deeper?
Both of these clubs has quite strong international connections and regular events. How will what you plan to have provide strikingly different services? Geographical convenience maybe? Do we REALLY want to make it this convenient to learn magic? So much so that people can drop by after class to learn a trick or two. What are the implications of that?


Don't mind me ah, sometimes I take issues of exposure (and magic piracy) a little too seriously because of the existance of these forums. B) Which explains some of the tough rules we have in here. :D
I trust that you and your friend will consider these questions carefully before taking it further.

In any case, welcome to the forums again, and I hope you will find this little resource enjoyable and useful. And hope to see you at a gathering sometimes. :)


Cheers,
Aloy

I like to put my 2cent worth into the idea of setting up a club. Apparently, this also happening in Ngee Ann, my previous school, and i also address to my fellow magicians about the issues of setting up a club.

Most of the points that mentioned by Aloy is valid in his point towards magic. So is your, Adrain. But I will address some points on the school's view.

A school wont let you set up a club, if you cannot substain a certain amount of people per year, and a club like magic being an exclusive hobby, its hard to know, who is the ones that are interested in magic, and who is the ons that are interested in secrets. Second, a club must spread the knowledge of what the club is doing, let say, cheerleading, we must teach the freshies cheerleading from basic to advance, which magic cannot be done. Thirdly, lots of activities to keep the club active and people being aware of it, which magic club can hardly do it, because, without a strong background, no members will dare to do a stage act, second, no members will dare to do a street act also. It is not like SMC, having an already large base of street magicians, and having those people around, we can do some cover for fellow new street magicians if they need help. As for a club in a school, its harder. (Not all events will require magicians)

I know that the above points can be defend, but in a school's view, if your club cannot justify for what its doing, and what its doing is benefit to the freshies or members, they wont let you setup one. And as magic is a expensive art also, the first issue they will ask is, what are you going to do every week? Teach the freshies new effect every week? Or talk about presentation every week? Or prepare for a show, which comes into mind, what show, where?

So, what i saying here is, you can setup all you want, Aloy cannot do anything to stop you, but in the end, the school will question you about your purpose of the club, and in the end, its hard to justify the need of a magic club.

And wont it be better to gather magicians that are in SMU and do some jamming, swap pointers from each other?

If you are looking towards performing in school, its not hard, juz setup a link with some event organising group, like FOC, or annual events clubs, telling them that you have a group of magicians that can perform for them. And you will get the help le. I think the recent NYP performance is a good example.

Hope you not pissed off by my points.

Larry

No problem people!

i think why i also join these forums is because i would also need felow magician input before i start any club. after all my magic only come from my own experience. and i have never set up any magic club before. so let me sit down and talk to my friend first before i say or propose anything.

anyway, my name is spelled as ADRIAN, not adrain. thanks!:)

I would like to lend support to the view that magic clubs should not be set up in schools.

Yes, you might have good intentions, BUT, the end result will not be what you expect it to be.

-You agree that some people will try to join the club just to find out secrets.
-A magic club in your school will make it easier for such people to find out secrets.
-It is very hard to regulate exposure amongst "magicians" in your club. And I seriously doubt if they are at a level where secrets and ideas can be shared freely.
-How are you going to build in "hurdles"? Who will decide who gets in and who doesn't? Who guards the guardians? Who will decide on entry after you leave the school?

You said you are not in support of exposure of secrets, and I applaud that. However, the above are practical concerns which will make such exposure almost inevitable and regulation of it unfeasible.

I'm sure you would prefer to have magic kept more exclusive, and for those who are genuinely interested (who are actually a select few), they can learn more about magic themselves elsewhere (as you mentioned). Bringing a magic club into school saves people so much trouble that it's hard to distinguish who is really interested.

As it is already, there are too many magic hobbyists in Singapore, spurred on by recent hype from TV magic and the flourishing of magic shops.

Your passion for magic is admirable, but I do urge you to rethink this proposal and consider the consequences it will have on magic as a whole. Such clubs, as Aloy said, need not be formalised.

Do consider.

lol...Sorry Adrian :g:

Anyways, please don't be too shocked with the responses in here. It's just that recently, there's a dramatic increase in magic clubs in schools, especially in tertiary institutions. I think there're magic clubs in 4 out of the 5 polytechnics now.

While I personally am for the existance of magic clubs (I recognise the importance of peer interaction to keep up an interest in magic and advance the art), i am a little taken back by the sudden mushrooming of such clubs in schools. And I am quite curious about the impact of which.

Anyways, I'm sure you will take all the points mentioned into considerations before you decide on the next step. B)

Anyway, for the concluding statement and
what the hell happened to Ngee Ann's magic club,
here's how it goes.


With a measely number of 4,
me, kenneth, yaz, ben,

and our different views and concerns of the clubs, along with ALOY'S PRESSURE!(just kidding), and to create a non exposure club is really difficult.

We have also thought of tests to give membership to those who pass them or completes them. But as stated in Aloy's post, do these people have the passion to take magic to a different level, or are we grooming more hecklers and exposers in the already heckling and exposing singaporean community?

My take on the club, is that we'll be the Ngee Ann branch of SMC.
This way, our members come from the SMC pool directly.

1. No fear of grooming exposers or hecklers(Aloy has promptly taken care of most of them here).
2. No need for sponsorships etc whatsoever.
3. FLEXIBLE MEETING TIMES!


Lastly, for performances, if i'm able to get any performance slots in school, I'll post them here on SMC. So we all get to benefit.

Sorry..just wanna enquire anyone in SMU?

--tom--

I know of a few magician in SMU including myself.

Adrian