Uniformity of action is regarded as important to the credibility of the magician and i would say that most magicians at least spend some time in the mirror trying to make their magic look more natural, or try to find reasons to justify certain awkward moves.

But the issue that bothers me is how far magicians can go 'off balance' just to be able to create uniformity of action. An example would be my friend who likes the push-through shuffle, and, taking the idea of 'uniformity of action' to the extreme, now his normal tabled shuffles look exactly like his push-throughs. It is suspicious and unnatural, and not convincing to the discerning audience.

I think striking the balance for uniformity of action means that one has to understand that some sleights are just too different from normality to be able to replicate without looking suspicious.

I think that the magician should find sleights (or refine them) to match thier normal moves, and not create normal moves that look like their sleights. Of course the reason why some do the latter - like my friend - is because simply that it is too difficult to do the former.

A good example is the DL. To my knowledge, there has not been a revolutionary method of pushing off the D with the left thumb to the right just like in a single lift and so uniformity of action pertaining to the former is impossible - most just don't conform to uniformity: they do a strike DL when DLing and then they do a left thumb push when doing a SL. And then there are some that do strikes all the way, which is again unnatural.

So striking the balance means trying with one's best ability to refine their sleights such that they look like normal moves, and if that cannot be achieved, then small discrepancies in similar actions will have to be chosen over forced uniformity.

Anyone care to comment?

Ah this is a wonderful topic. I sincerely feel that every sleight if practised properly can look 'normal'.

Nique Tan does push throughs that look like regular table shuffles.

And, I do DLs where the left thumb pushes a card to the right exactly like a single lift.

Think about it. If laypeople know that we're notice that we're doing something extremely awkward, our performance will not hit them as hard as it should.

I feel uniformity of action is really important. However that does not mean that flashier DLs should not be used. For example. the Diving Board Double, looks quite natural to laymen because they think of us as magicians who have skill with cards. Therefore they think it is natural for us to turn 'single' cards over in a flashy way.

Just don't overdo flashy things.

My ideas are still buzzing around in my head for this one, but I just want to clarify some things:

1. Does uniformity of action mean the naturalness of a move?

2. What does Mr Blackwing mean by not overly doing flashy stuff?

thanks.

- harapan ong

I think the threadstarter is talking about how people try to be uniform in all their moves, so that nothing looks fishy. But when some people try that, they looks awkward instead.

Eg. Perhaps one is knows he is going to execute a DL, but is afraid of being exposed, thus the awkward expression. In most cases, lack of confidence? If you know you can do a DL well, you wouldn't need to worry being seen through.

So, practice more. ^_^

It can be achieved quite automatically with practise.

Even when it comes to the DL... people don't usually notice in particular the way you lift up the card. You're just "showing them a card". Right? I'm not sure about you guys, but if you pull off the DL naturally, as in without getting all nervous and awkward in your movement, nobody really notices.

Because there's nothing to notice, remember?

(But of course, if you flash, that's a totally different matter... :P )

Edit: ... My bad. What I've just said is very similiar to Trix. Sorry!

Yes, its great to know that most lay-people if they aren't trying to heckle don't really pick up on much of these things. We think about these kinda things sometimes because we wanna try to impress other magicians (or fool them) too.

I've been sloppy several times, and ppl haven't caught on. But i guess its a healthy discussion for those who sincerely wish to improve in their art.

Mr lumpy:

I do not fully agree with you on a few points. I believe that you are looking at the uniformity and naturalness of a move based on a magi's point of view. If you were to really think about it, magicians doing crazy flourishes or some fancy way to cut a deck - is that then the so-called unnaturalness and unconvincing?

Unless we really shuffle sloppily like a layman would, or cut cards sloppily like a layman would or even hold cards in some strange grip like a layman do, convincing would be a problem.

But in the first place, the audience should understand that you are a magician, and you are good with cards. Even if you cut the deck in some fancy way, they would understand "ahh, you are good" and not "you are not shuffling at all you conman". If at the beginning, you do not give them such an impression taht you are good with cards, any fancy cut or shuffle later will seem suspicious and unconvincing.

Honestly, if you do not give them the impression you are and SHOULD BE good with card handling, if you suddenly do a beautiful normal riffle shuffle with no suspicious moves, be prepared for them to get suspicious because your actions are not UNIFORM with your impression you gave them.

Therefore, yes it is true we should fit our sleights with our "normal" moves - but in the first place, our normal moves should still be good looking and beautiful, no?

My point is, if you have the impression that you are good with cards, whether a push-through table shuffle, an arial Diving Board Double, or even a crazy 2 hour long sybil to mix up the cards should still be uniform in that sense, therefore we should not worry too much.

- harapanong, the one who joked about the 2 hour long sybil thingy, because you shouldn't do it

EDIT: And I think it is stupid to think you should handle cards sloppily like a layman (untrained with cards) just to make yourself look normal or not doing sleights.

I got a classmate. After doing a ACR, he said..... shouted loudly

" You did the double lift thing right? Is it the double lift? It's the double lift right? "

The 3 sentences straight out. Never even stop to breath. Wah lao. I just deny it and walk away. Damn sian.

Paradoxt, can you blame him? Laypeople will feel happy "knowing the secret", since it's like they are special or something like that.

I agree with HarapanOng. A card magician should be expected to able to handle cards. Nowadays, most people would have heard of the term sleight of hand and heard of gimmicks and all. People do not believe that you are doing real magic. Anyway, it would be odd if you were able to do magic but still be unable to handle the deck well right?

Hmm, alot of points mentioned by many people. Let say.

To me, ya, some moves are too fancy or too something about it. But, it really comes down to how natural you handle that move. Take an example, I can do a push off DL without seeing. Ya i know it is not big deal, but to an audience, its the flowing of your movements, if take an example, if you walk and u stop half way and jump, people will look at you and stare at you. but if you walk and u jump suddenly, people might see you, might caught you abit, but they are always caught in surprise.

So my conclusion with the example is that, every moves that you want to make, make it flow with your previous move, like a sybril moves being done non stop. I always use my push off DLs and then show a single card using a simple push of, but to the audience, they NEVER question me about the first push off or say that its a double, because everytime i do it, i always gesture about the card or what, and push off, without blinking, or wondering, so to them, its a card that i show them in a fancy and more detailed way. :)

Other issues like using the moves too much and wanting to force the moves to be a natural way of your card handling. Its very subjective, some people will do alot of cuts and in the end, when in a normal, friend game, they did a fancy cuts and their friends are curious, be open and say that, oh, because we magicians play cards alot, and we do fancy moves alot, and it tend to become a habit to do cuts like that. Its not subjected to cuts ony. Just be open about your habit of doing it, because some moves are really down to the earth that, there is no other way to do it, like a pass, though there are lots of variations, its still a pass, you have to live with it. When the audience notice something is wrong, just say that oh, maybe its because we handle cards too long, so you might think that we are doing some fancy moves, and then on the flow, show your card (DL) is on the top, and put it in centre, and say slowly, my mind can prevent me from repeating the same action if we do it very slowly but look, your card will still comes to the top.

I mean its just an example. Be confidence of your moves, if anyone questions about it, just justify, whether you are lying anot, to them, its a fact from your mouth, they still don't know what is it.

Uniformity of action is restricted specifically to sleights not flourishes.

Magicians are expected to handle cards well, i.e riffle shuffle, over-hand shuffle, maybe a one-handed cut, but not sleights that are unknown to lay-people and not flourishes.

Flourishing is not synonymous with good card handling, and it is sometimes detrimental to the magical atmosphere your trying to bring across - people will credit your magic to fast hands after seeing your flourishing and not to magic itself. Look at Brian Tudor's performances and then look at someone like Michael Ammar's or even better Edward Marlo's.

Some fancy flourishes like a one-handed fan can add to a neat and aesthetic presentation, but a sybil 2 followed by what the hell, and then a bad habit just makes you look like a show-off and people will not regard your MAGIC as highly.

If you handle the cards neatly, use them professionally like i mentioned in the second paragraph, don't over-flourish, and present your magic cleanly with uniformity of action to prevent suspicion, it will be tons better in terms of MAGIC than a performance by BT, who, incidentally doesn't perform magic as much as he shows off.

So the question you have to ask yourself is: do you want to be a Magician? or a show-off that uses magic among other things to promote himself?

mr lumpy

I suggest we not go into the flourishes/magic part.

And I emphasize again, I was joking about the 2 hour sybil anyway.

I read my post again, and I realised I was talking more on fancy cuts - meaning stuff you can even find on BTP; Trinary Cut, Pendulum Cut and so on.

Let me condense what I had to say about the uniformity of actions:

I think our actions should be uniform with our character as a magician, and as a card magician, you should be expected to handle cards with certain flair and confidence laymen don't have.

Like mr zomazziz said, there is nothing for the layman to notice, because your flashy double lift, flashy riffle shuffle, whatever sleight that seems unnatural, should be expected of you to do so. I mean, if you are so good with cards, naturally no one should care about your beautifully executed riffle shuffle or sleight because it is "not uniform" with what they (as layman) can do.

There is nothing for them to notice if your actions mirror your character.

And before anyone blasts at how card magic must not be over-flashy and how flourishes should not be used and seemingly used for showing-off, I urge that:

1. Stop immediately. This topic is highly sensitive.

2. Before you limit yourself, first ask yourself what are the new opportunities doing flourishes in magic can bring about. Why limit yourself to "no flourishes"?

- harapan ong