I own an Invisible Deck. In my personal opinion, I would say it is one of the best mentalism effects. Even in a group of people, it could be performed repeatedly without fear of exposing.

I am interested in Kolossal Killer and is aware that this effect has been discussed previously. However, I still have some thoughts/doubts on it.

1. Can KK be performed repeatedly without fear of exposing?
2. Any of the 52 cards can be found from ID. From reviews, KK seems to have problem in a few cards.
3. ID finds the exact number and suit of the named card. I do not know if KK could find the same or just exact number but not suit?
4. Even if there is no patter, ID works perfectly.

I understand both effects are not exactly the same - ID finds named card from deck while KK finds the only named card from wallet, and they should not actually be compared. But I would still like to have the advise from those that have these 2 tricks.

Giving a choice, would you choose ID or KK considering that both are “impromptu” in a way. And if you choose KK, can you please let me know why? Thank you.

I would choose ID anytime because it's easier to carry around.

KK requires eh... extensive storage space.

KK can't really be repeated many times cos there will be no more element of surprise, as with many other effects.

My simple and humble views.

You will NOT be able to perform KK for a few times, KK, to me is sort of more to an "out" than a trick itself, but there are many magicians that use it as an effect.

Regarding, the "any 52 cards" well, it is actually not a problem at all, i dont know how to phrase it, but not a problem.

KK allows you to review the selected in a nice way, good for pattering.

KK is obviously self working, but just like any other effect, patter is important to make the trick looks better.

To me, ID is much better than KK, the effect to me is much more visual and scary, but, currently i am using KK rather than ID because i try to reduce the number of decks to bring out

if you use ID after a normal card trick effect, laymen will say why dont you use the same deck to do the effect, why must use another deck, well, pattering can get you off this but they will still think that is a high technology, ultra sensitive, voice recognition gimmick deck. :)

Thomas,

Alot of your questions are going to reveal too much about KK. So i'm not sure if i can answer them.

But what i can say is this, if you want a think-of-any-card kinda effect, continue using ID.

But you need a "out" in case anything and everthing went wrong in your card effect, keep a KK in your wallet.

Don't worry, KK can cover 92% of all cards and suits.

don't overuse the KK. Its one of those "long long show one time" trick. (this would answer your "perform repeatedly" question)

If I remember correctly, the manuscript reads that the KK is meant to use as an out. There is also a routine called Truly Invisible inside, you may wanna use it. Its just an ID effect without the deck.

i used to do KK together with the ID, I'd have a group of specs to think of a card. Afterwards I would choose any 2 of the specs as my victims, I would ask them to name the card that they were thinking of.

I'd then end it with the revelation using both the ID and the KK. I would normally use KK alternate's climax, personally i feel its stronger (those who has KK will know)

Even on days when I do not bring out an ID, and I stumble on a card trick, I know i still can rely on my KK.

Thank you for all your precious advises.

I have a chance to read the original manuscript. Yes, I agree that Killer is more to be an "OUT" and Kenton Knepper himself suggested NOT to repeat Killer again to same people.

However, with current setup, I could not convince myself that it is an 'ultimate OUT' for playing cards. Simple reason is that it does not cover all.

However, I think a very small adjustment to include just 2 cards will perfect it, using the same technique. I could not elaborate further as it will casued exposure. I hope those with Killer, understand what I mean by same method and agree with me too.

With that included, I must say that having KK in the wallet is really a killer, for those who don't bring ID along.

cheers!

Hi. I have both Kolossal killer and Invisible deck.

I used to use both in a single routine (though now I use brainwave deck instead of ID). I find that kolossal killer is more practical.

With Invisible deck, you have to carry around an extra deck of cards, and this deck cannot be used for normal card tricks. Kolossal killer does not have a 'thickest' problem as some have claimed. Besides, the wallet can be used as a normal day-to-day wallet. So there is no need to carry anything extra. (I'm sure you carry your wallet everytime you walk out of the house)


Also, since the card is in a tiny envelope in your wallet, there is no way you can place anything in the wallet like a sleight of hand magician does. With the Invisble deck, the real skeptics may reason in your mind that using sleight of hand, you 'flipped' the chosen card around. With the Kolossal killer, since it is in the envelope, they will not even imagine sleight of hand tricks.

For Invisible deck, I prefer to use the brainwave deck instead as the selected card turns out to be a different colour from the rest of the deck.

In conclusion, if you are asking me if you should get kolossal killer or invisible deck, I would say, go for the kolossal killer any day. (stronger but similar effect as ID, and can be used as a normal wallet as well.) Remember, that you are paying for a leather wallet. If you already have the ID, then just stick to it, unless if you like to perform risky mentalism effects and require more then one 'back-up' effect.

P.s. One last thing to note, if you are looking at kolossal killer, you might have notice that kenton also sells a manuscript known as the killer koncept, which is essentially a manuscript of ideas that can be used with kolossal killer. In my opinion, killer konception is a waste of money and I doubt you will use any of the effects in that book other then the original kolossal killer routine. K.E.N.T. is a nice effect to do together with kolossal killer though. Done well, it will freak the audience out.

Mod's note: post edited for exposure.

I can't seem to edit my above comments, so I'm typing another post.

In addition to what I mentioned above, I would agree with lefty when he mention that lay people often ask why you do not use the normal pack of cards you were using before you switched to the Invisble deck. I overcome this by explaining that the deck contains a prediction effect and his chosen card has been specially placed. That is why it cannot be shuffled. I reassure them that they will understand once the effect is over. Later on, when you show the card predicted facing upwards, your explanation will make sense to them.

I prepare my kolossal killer to predict all 52 cards. It is not limited to only 90% of cards. You can even flash the wallet at the audience if need be. By the way, my kolossal killer wallet (including a few dollars and cards) is about the same thickness as a whole deck of cards.

Also, with the ID, when it gets pretty warped and worned out, there is a slight tendency to 'expose' the wrong cards if you are not careful. With kolossal killer, you do not have a problem with worn cards. A worn wallet will look even more natural.

If you use those 'post-it notes' glue, you can even seal the envelope in kolossal killer and have the audience open it themselves. The envelope can be reused. Eradicate any thoughts of sleight-of-hand that the spectator may have.

The only thing I do not like about kolossal killer is that it lacks a coin pouch, so using it as a normal wallet may be a little of a hazzle when it comes to pocketing coins.

I do not recommend performing both Invisible deck and kolossal killer more then once on teh same day. With invisibel deck, if you do it more then once, and someone ask why you do not use the normal deck of cards, you will not be able to explain that it is a prediction deck any longer. They will immediately think, "Gimmicked deck". When people ask me to perform either ID or KK again, I would tell them that I'll show it to them again the next time I perform, as I have to prepare a prediction. That will keep them thinking that it really was a prediction.

Actually the problem of not able to use ID for other tricks can be overcome by doing a deck s*****. I would use a regular deck to do some tricks first before waiting for a moment to unleash ID. People never suspect anything.

Anyway, I do not have Brainwave but I heard that ID is easier to use. Is it true?

I actually find brainwave easier... or at least the way the cards are originally arranged. (But of course you can always rearrange them the way you want).

There is not much difference, and both the brainwave and ID can be used for the same thing - except the ability to show a card with a different back. But from using both, the reactions from brainwave is much stronger. Both as just as easy to use.

On switching decks, that is a good idea, but my ID is a black tiger design. So it would be wierd changing them to bicycle backs. My brainwave is bicycle backed. Thanks for the good idea.

2 cents from me..

I use kolossal killer.
I didn't get the special wallet (using my own wallet. Bought it at wallet shop. It's like a himber-esk Z-fold thingy!)
I don't use envelopes to seal the prediction in the wallet (Overkill)
I don't put in the extra bonus to ensure 100% full deck.

My presentation is not the std KK patter. I use Derren Brown's 3 diamonds psychological force instead. But instead of 3 diamonds I force 4 diamonds in the same way. Why I force 4 diamonds? KK owners will know why. Better ending.

I love the kolossal killer. There are times when I just don't carry anything with me and was asked to show a trick. I'd do KK. Once I was doing a stage show and found out that the 'stage' was too small to do anything. I did KK. It's the real pack small play big thing!

Important thing to note is that the secret to KK is not the wallet or the cards. It's presentation. I mean. when you saw david blaine doing I.D. to that afro haircut 'ace of spades' dude... he simply asked him to name a card and then took the deck out and voila. That's gimmick.

But KK on the other hand, needs excellent presentation from yourself to sell it as real mind reading. If you ain't gonna put in the work for that. Stick with I.D. There should be no doubt in the spectator's mind that you had really really read his mind! compared to I.D. where it can still be sold as a clever trick that I 'fooled' you with.

If you're gonna show it to friends who have seen so many card tricks from you, forget about KK. go with I.D.

And finally... i personally feel that it is super sad to downgrade KK to just an OUT!!! Need an out? go with I.D.

2 cents out...

PalmLine

I hope I did not cause misunderstanding... I am not the one that is downgrading the KK to be an OUT.... if you read the original manuscript carefully, Kenton Knepper himself decribed it to be an ULTIMATE OUT. I hope this clarify.

No offence.... I think Joeltay has exposed too much on KK in the first reply... I will be glad on the reply if I dont know and dont own KK. But it surely dont benefit those already have a KK carried with them. The exposure has caused the "surprise" not to be a "surprise" anymore....

O.. B. O.. is this too much an exposure? Or maybe I am too sensitive on this :)

To be frank, I like KK too after reading and have included it in my normal wallet. Although it makes my wallet slightly thicker, but I find it worthwhile.

Nah i'm not pointing fingers at anyone here.. more of at the inventor, Kenton Knepper himself!!!

How's the KK been working out for you? Any great reactions yet?

Is it exposure? Moderators.. if it is, please delete it.

Although I have the KK in wallet, I have not got a chance to try KK so far. My intention is to use it as an OUT for K.E.N.T.... I always have the feeling that others will suspect my wallet if I perform KK alone. This is always how I feel as a layman when magician performs this type of trick.

It could be psychology problem that I have and maybe I have to overcome myself first :(

Same here. I used it as an out for KENT. If KENT works without KK, I'lll proceed with the standard KK effect. If KENT goes wrong, I'll finish with KK as an out.

I recently got the John Archer DVD, and I love his version of the KK, Komedy Killer and tried it out the other day. I love this one better.
Makes more sense to me. MY heirloom wallet's much much thinner too...(no I'm not talking about money. :lol: )

I thought that This Educating Archer DVD was fantastic too. But I rather stick with the original KK. No money to get the extra wallet for now (the one used in Komedy Killer) and it is more practical for me to just carry one wallet around for daily use instead of two.