I know some of you will say it's all about audience management but the reality is there ARE people who will just heckle you no matter what. So let's just assume you are faced with a incorrigible heckler.. What's your ultimate anti-heckler routine? Besides walking away or bashing him up...

Besides walking away or bashing him up?

Try Bashing him up [/I][/U] AND[I][U] walking away.

I seldom get hecklers that cannot be handled. But the one time I did. I really blew my top. I would be really interested in what you would say. Especially if the heckler successfully exposes your trick/mistake to everyone.

Actually, I wrote this because I met with one (a new colleague) just now, and the worst thing is he has some magic knowledge (all thanks to his friend who exposed a few tricks to him... Urgghh)!!

Anyway, what happened was: he saw me fiddling with my cards and asked me if I know magic. Of course with pride I replied yes and proceeded to show him a few things (he requested to see).

I did a simple card location (using a key-card) and when asked to cut the deck, he shuffled the whole deck! In fact, I even "showed" him the action of cutting but he totally ignored instructions! So I was scewed for this one.

Next I did a card location with a different method which allowed for shuffling. So again, I noticed he was hell-bent on messing things up for me, scrutinzing the face of the cards instead of just shuffling as instructed. Luckily for me, he didn't "see" the secret. So I was redeemed!!

But still I wasn't satisfied, I did a simple card prediction on him and this time, haha he was the one screwed, or so I thought... to my horror, he asked me if it was a F***e. I was like, how the heck did you know what a f***e is?

But luckily again... he hasn't seen a slip F before and so I answered, "No, no f***e required." I could tell he was baffled. But I'd made up my mind never to perform for him again!!

Ok, so that was my story

Exactly, just ignore him. He is not a bad audience. He is NOT even your audience. It is not worth playing catching game with this kinda ppl.

I GUESS HE WANTED TO BE YOUR FRIEND, WISH TO DISCUSS MAGIC WITH YOU AND ETC... B)

BEFRIEND WITH HECKLERS THAT WHAT I ALWAYS DO. B)

"Hey, you know magic! Can you show me something?"

1st: Identify whether he/she is a heckler...

*You also interested in magic? (find out whether he/she have knowledge of this art)
*There's a code of ethic...("remind" them how to "shut up")

2nd: Perform...

3rd: Ask for comment...

If he/she still heck then stop performing, they're not worth your time. Don't trouble learning anti-heckler routine, I'll suggest learning ways to "control" them instead. In "1st: Identify whether he/she is a heckler..." already give a head start to anti-heckler. Always be one step ahead...

-Alan-

You can sucker the heckler, make false moves and pretend to be hiding something when your not. It throws them off and your always a step ahead of them.

It helps if you know before-hand what sleights they know (if they know any) and avoid them - but dun forget to pretend to do them very unnaturally. If the heckler thinks you a d-grade magician, chances are he'll relax his heckling reflex at some parts of your performance and you can completely fool them.

I read that Ed Marlo liked to do that - during a performance he'd do unnecessary moves or drop the cards accidentally. It made hecklers suspicious of his unecessary moves and at the same time assured them that he wasn't very "swift", both of which worked to his advantage.

I just got to know what he learned from his friend. He knew about stacking (the very basic plus 4-next suit), knew there is something call a force, knew about m**ked deck. Obviously, his friend is into mentalism and decided to do his audience a "favour" by exposing his tricks.

Anyway, I don't think he wanted to be friends... I think he just wanted to prove he's smarter.

Anyway, any suggestions on establishing your authority so that subconsciously they "know" you are in-charge.

Yoz Axl,

Sorry to hear that your new friend was giving trouble. But, it's definitely a very good idea for you to totally drop the idea to perform for him again. Here's what I would do in your situation:

Start your first effect properly. Than, should he begin to heckle you during your 1st trick, you already should be wary of the guy. End or try to end the 1st effect if possible than start to show him the second effect - aka a totally auotmatic one! :blink: I personally believe, If he isn't a true student of the art, he would never have think that it was all totally automatic! haha!

However, should he be a wise ass and say, "Hey you did this!" or "Hey, you did that!" I would give him the packet of cards, asks him to be the magician while you actually can relax and enjoy the show as an audience! (Note: This way of telling off hecklers is actually still being used by Uncle Bob whom more often than not gets hecklers during his shows! And believe it or not, it works!) By now, he usually gets the point and shuts up! However, if his skin is still thick enough and actually accepts your challenge, while he is performing his effect, than YOU can go, "hey, you did this!" hahaha

My two cents! Hope it will help!

dry_gin

P.S. - AXL, shouldn't you be in office WORKING?! Haha!

Yo Bro, facing tough customers again is it haha.... chill bro...

Recently, I had the privilege of reading Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz and from there I picked up something which I would like to share on handling tough customers.

2 of the biggest attributes that pushes your audience into the role of a heckler or more appropriately phrased, the role of a dectective is due to

(i) Presentation
(ii) Attitude or Character

Darwin Ortiz said "There is no element of challenge in Good Magic". This means that when magic is performed and structured correctly, it would not induce the challenge mentality in the minds of the audiences. Good magic has so much to offer than just plain puzzlement. If you can direct your audiences out of the role of a dectective, or better yet, prevent them from entering into that role, you're actually doing them a favour as you can now engage them further and offer greater entertainment than just the just the regular puzzle solving attitude that they are might be tuned into.

Many a times, somewhere in the presentation or attitude, a subtle message like: "Catch me if you can, I'm smarter than you", is transcended across. Such attitudes are of course resented by your audiences and naturally they will try to discover your trick because you've asked them to do so, even if they have no such intentions in the first place.

If your description of your scenario is accurate, your challenge attitude was incepted even before you started your magic. You said:

Pardon me if I'm wrong bro, you answered with pride and immediately proceeded to show him your prowess. This was already an invitation to your colleague that I can do things you can't. Watch me blow you away, sucker...Then in the very 1st effect he spoilt your effect and you were left dumbfounded (actually you can move on to another effect, tell you on sat what you can move to). So now he knows that he has nailed you and that increases his confidence. From this point onwards, you're already fighting against him and yourself. The challenge attitude has heightened even further. Up till the very last effect on the F***e, your statement of "No, no F***e required", was challenging your spec to figure out what you've showed him. There was'nt a time where you actully engaged him to enjoy the intimacy and essence of close-up magic. You were focused on screwing his mind. To me, thats not magic, its just showing that I can do something but you can't. I believe this is something common to everyone. I must admit I was like this and I learn from experiences.

Opps..sorry everyone carried away again. Therefore, rather then coming up with 1 heckler routine that baffles everyone, it would be much better to look at how you present each your routines and what attitudes are you conveying to your audiences. Once you've achieved that and understood the sentiments and emotions going through your spectator, every routine can be heckler proof. So why have 1 when you can have all? haha... :lol:

Well thats my 2 cents take on this. I should stop now :P

Ha, no I think all of you guys have given me very good advice. I totally appreciate that!!

Yah, I think I might have come across a bit show-off in my attitude (not adhering to my own advice I posted earlier). And yes, I could tell he was in a puzzle-solving mood, he kept looking up, trying to "break" the secret. I really should do some self-reflection on this.

Ok, FYI, eh.. I am doing the tricks at lunch time. Hehe... so not exactly "eating snake." I mean, not as if I am a teacher. :P

Anyway, keep the post coming in! Really love to hear from you guys!

Jerome, very well said :)

Frankly, I find that the heckler was not to be blamed for this totally.

As what Jerome had said, both of you had gone into a puzzle solving game from the start. First, You perform, he breaks - He wins. The second and third times you perform, he cannot break your magic and you are happy.

The joy here is not that you have shown him your magic and he was entertained. It was rather that you gave him some magic puzzle and out of 3, he solved only 1 and you "won" the "game". It is a game and not magic, dont you think so ^_^

My suggestion is that just casually (or "unintentionally") ask if he has any magic knowledge before your performance. This might be a good way to prevent all the heckling.... if he knows magic, ask him what sleight/tricks does he know, and instead of you performing to him, let him show his to you first. Or maybe you could exchange pointers with each others becoming friends :) not a heckler to you anymore :D

Cheers

Why magicians and laymen heckle?

Because they are out to impress their friends that they are the Mr or Ms Smart.

The worst audience I have was doing Close Up to the descendants of PRC. Maybe it is they culture. But I do meet very nice intellectual audience and this will encourage me to show them more tricks.

A serious student of magic will never heckle his fellow magicians. I had encountered magicians and even veteran magicians heckle me at my show.
As usual, I am always prepared with knuckle busting technical routines and a handful sucker effects to embarrass them. Hecklers in fact know very little about magic secrets and most of them are just making wild guesses. Just ignore them and talk to those people who interested in your act.

If they get overboard, I will tell them off that I am here to entertain but not to be humiliated. Then again being a elderly magician has the advantage.

To avoid being heckle more often than not, you must know your stuffs, practise your moves well to avoid detections and put on a smiling face. If you are not proficient with your sleights, do self work tricks. We magicians are no GOD otherwise we will be opening pet shops selling rabbits.

I have seen magicians behaves like celebrities when they performed and also with an attitudes. This sort of behaviour will only encourage hecklers. Be friendly and if you happens to blunder, they will forgive you.

Hope this post helps and enjoy the magic.

Uncle Bob

How I wish I can do some bizarre magic such as this. I think it will make hecklers stay away for a while. :D

What would you do in this case. You do an am******s card routine and the spectator says loudly to everyone that you flipped 2 cards and before you can do or say anything, snatches the next card and flip it open.

What would you say or do then?

"It was accidental. Come on, it really WAS the card." Proceed with the tilt or the pass or top change or ... . At this point, it wld be better not to continue, especially if ur very dependent on DL. End the routine and take xtra care of that person.

But really, if u master that sleight such scenarios are rare. Do note I say MASTER.

Haha wow MASTER, you sound so serious.


However, i feel that we could just add a tiny bit of misdirection, the mess will be all cleared up, or just do a ri**le p*s*, and shame the hecklers.


Then proceed to the impossible card location, and 52 cards pick up.
Those aint tricks, their heckler shamers. It would add spice to your routine.

hey joel..if you are accused of doing a DL..then jus put the card into the middle face up lorh..
Ambitious is so versatile..shouldn have a prob..plus it's one of those tricks that if you screw up, just go into another direction and you'll be fine again.

Something that i realised but have yet to practice is that if you present you magic from a third person's perspective, people are less likely to heckle, as the focus is on you the story teller, and not ur hands or the deck of cards.

One example is the ACR and 2CM. Some people patter about how they saw this other guy did this and did that. And as such, the spec is engrossed in your story, and not really paying attention to your hands.

ZiAn

Sorry to say this but someone ask me about anto-heckler routine which is posted here in SMC and wanted help, but in the first place, why would you even want to bother about them and even plan routine for them????

When I just started the thread, I was actually thinking of asking what's your ultimate "heckler-proof" routine. The one where you would pull out where all things fail and never fails to confound the heckler.

So not exactly of thinking up a routine to "aim" especially at hecklers.

I don't think there are routines made especially for heckers (or pick up Brian Tudor's Heckler dvd). I'll normally stop if the heckler is all over me, e.g grabbing cards...etc. I don't see the point in continuing for someone who don't appreciate magic.

AND..."When all things failed for you". You should not be thinking of anti-heckler routines, you should go back and practice again.

Please do not always assume that when a magician met a heckler, it must be due to lack of practice or audience management. Some people just simply LOVE to heckle, just to prove they are smarter. Even Uncle Bob had encountered hecklers before, does that mean that he did not practice enough?

C'mon let's face it, even in a 2 card monte, no matter how good your presentation is, if the guy is REALLY hell-bent on turning over the card early, you also "LL". You may be very blessed that you have not met such a person, but I am very sure many of us has, at some point, met with such individuals.

I understand that we can minimize (the word is minimize, not eliminate) the chances of getting heckled by brushing up on our presentation and sleights. But this is not the question posted here, I was not asking "how to avoid being heckled" but asking "if you really met with one (halfway thru then you realized he's one), is there a routine you will do to get you out?"

Yes, I agree, you can walk away but seriously, it's very difficult to walk away with dignity and poise. Imagine a magician suddenly grab his stuff and walk off. It would seem very abrupt and rude (even though the heckler was rude in the first place) by Asian's standards.

Sometimes, when we give answers like "Practice again..." without really understanding the question (ok, maybe I didn't phrase it well, if yes, my apologies), it is really a bit out of point.

The heckler is there flipping things they shouldn't and yet you still want to continue performing. Personally I think you deserve it when you lost your dignity and such there and then.

He's already HELL-bent on overthrowing your show, what make you think the anti-heckler routine will stop his actions?

Why not cut the show short and excuse yourself politely? Already you are not comfortable with your performance and yet you want to bite on and challenge that bugger. You are asking for it isn't?

Either, you can politely ask the heckler to stop his nonsense because its affecting the other audiences or if the situation permits, ask your audiences to take a couple of steps back stating they will be able to see better, also reducing the chance of pre-mature flippings.

I hope this helps :mellow:

Ok, I don't want to turn this into a debate. I'll just make this point.

Yes, no doubt I can choose to walk away. Yes, there are thousand and one things that I can choose to do.

And again, I can also choose to hit him hard with a trick that he can never figure out (unless he knows magic too, but even he is, there are magicians'foolers). Hey, face it, sometimes we really feel like screwing that guy back (if we can help it). So I am only asking ... in that case, do you have something up your sleeves (maybe a M**ked D**k)?

What makes me think I can stop him? I am not even thinking of stopping him, I am thinking of getting back at him. Ok, maybe you would say that's childish but I know of many accomplished magicians who HAVE tricks just to get back at hecklers.

If not, why would Brian Tudor want to come up with the Heckler Dvd? Why didn't Brian Tudor just came up with one trick called "Walking Away" . That's because he knew we would be up against a heckler, and if we need to, we can screw him back, hard!

That's just my personal opinions. Not that I can't accept different views, only I want answers that answer my questions instead of answers I am not exactly looking for and which might be more suitable for other topics.

:) :blink: B)

Easy guys...........healthy difference in opinion is great. Like what they say about iron sharpening iron. But don't get too worked up yah?

And so that I don't have to reduce my own post counts, here's my 2 cents on the topic. :D

I think we are talking about 2 different kind of "hecklers" here, the smart alec type and the uncooperative type.
I think if you meet an uncooperative spec (refuse to listen to instructions, touch your things without asking, grab stuff from your hand), it might mean he is not really interested in seeing magic (or that we are so uninteresting that they feel the need to help you spice things up, but assuming that's not the case). The best thing is probably just end it there.
But if you would like to still "have a go at him", maybe try routines with minimal audience interaction, things which they don't have chance to mess up. But as they say "magic happens in the mind", if their mind is not interested, then there's not much magic regardless.

For the smart alec type (try to explain how something is done, try to ask if they can check this check that, burn your hand intently, OCCASIONALLY uncooperative), actually these types are usually those who pride themselves to be quite clever and maybe knows a little bit of magic knowledge. For these, maybe you can try some "magician's fooler" effects, there are PLENTY around.
The question then becomes, is it worth it to put the effort into these since presentationally, it is not that impressive really to the normal spec. It depends then on who you ask and even the big names differ in opinion on this.
I personally have a few of these for no real good reason. :lol: e.g. the card prediction i did at the SMC chalet, and the ridiculously many steps find the card effect that I did at the last gathering. These usually requires too much work for the same effect presentationally. Whether they are worth it is a personal thing. I am pretty neutral about it personally.
Alternatively, I personally feel that effects which relies on misdirection for the "secret" (e.g. 51 cards to pocket, watch stealing) can work very well for these type of "heckler". I suspect it's the surprise/kicker ending type effects (as opposed to the suspense type effects) that makes them more impactful for this type, and misdirection is a difficult concept for the average heckler to grasp. But as we know (or at least for me :D ), misdirection is easy to talk about but difficult to pull off :lol: so these are not easy either.

Ok, I think that's sufficiently long now. :g: Finally, I just feel that it is more important to gauge whether they are "heckling" because they are interested but the secrets are not strong enough, or are they heckling because they are simply really not interested. Since magic happens in the mind (even the most "visual" effects), if the mind is not there, then there's really not much magic that can happen.

Totally think so.

i personally think the way to handle hecklers is by experience and seeing what others will do. When the heckler screwed your effect, the first thing in mind is, dun go haywire and like "Oh no, I screwed" But to stay calm and say, "Damn, I screwed" It set off the alarm by the rest of the people and the heckler that "You S*cks" but then you already did a sleight and ask them what is their card, proceed to finding their card, then realise it is not in the deck, or at your hands, or the turnover card, but wait, you turn your ass to them, use your small fingers, to pull out that card to the heckler.

Things to take note is:
*STAY CALM!!!
*HOLD FIRM and Dun lose your AIR
*AGREE with them, because they really caught you
*Catch them offguard again
*last by not least, FACE YOUR ASS to the heckler. (LOL)

I mean you can walk away or anything, but of course, most of all want to play outsmart to the heckler, so playing police and thief is always good, you saw me, but you didnt catch me.

If you wondering what sleight I will use, I will use the top palm after tat.

Just my Opinions, Now thats $25 dollars for my routine. Pay up everyone!!! :lol:

Larry

Disagree with that. Because most of the time they are simply guessing what it is that you are doing. You don't have to confirm it for them that they are right.
By doing that, you are not only confirming what they SUSPECT is the method, you are also encouraging this behaviour by "rewarding" them this way.

Oh, my bad.

Its misleading in that message. AGREE with them, because they caught you.

What I meant here is, you deliberately agree that, "Ya, I think something went wrong, Ahh.. What is your card anyway?" So the heckler will be giggling and maybe laughing at you and say "8th of hearts". Then you say, "Weird, there is no 8th of hearts here, you sure about that" Since he thought he have won against you, he will be too high on the head and say " Of course its the 8th of hearts, it must be in the deck.. " You show them its not inside, "Nope" Then let them miserably searching the card in your deck, while you then say " Wait, I think I know where is it" Turn over, and then do the reveal.

Thats what i meant ba, I mean, to cut off their defense, you have to make them assume they caught you, (even though they might have) but you sleeved up to make them realise, its all part of it, they got nothing in the end.

I mean, there are different thinking of how people will handle.

Sorry for misleading.

Larry

Refund refund! :P :P :P

Last move after the anti heckler routine:

All techniques, routines sold are not refundable. Prices are subjected to change without pior notice.

Thank You.

Wow. I'm awed by all the literature here. These gems of definitely should be re-posted some day and I'm glad to have read this thread.

Back to point, I noticed majority of the stuff was on 'Character improvement' really. As a newbie here though, ii don't really know the 'big' people, but what would be recommended for a Observant, intellectual, curious spectator?

Also, not much a heckler but some one who just keeps asking "Show me more!" enthusiasticlly. It usually comes from kids and I hate to disappoint.

Really would appreciate advice on that, Thank you

I've met some really nasty hecklers because I sometimes
help a friend to man his magic stall. They are usually the
smart ass type who know a bit of magic and feel a need to
impress. Some have very strong egos and cannot take the
feeling that you have taken them for a ride. I am still smarting
from a peculiarly bad case of heckling a few days ago but I
believe there are lessons to be learn. I messed up in front of
an audience because of his heckling and I am suppose to be
selling magic. Here are some lessons to be learnt.

First is when a guy ask to see a trick and wants to shuffle the
cards first and proceed to give a demo on how good his shuffling
skills are...he is a potential heckler, he wants to impress everyone.
Be alert!

Stay cool, even when you messed-up, he wants to see you ruffled up,
just to prove the point of how smart he is, don't fall into his trap.
In my case after I messed-up I just move on to another trick, no
need to feel sorry or apologetic about it.

After you move on to another trick, dis-engage yourself from him and
move your attention to other people watching, if there are any.
Re-examine your handling of the effect to see if in future you
can do it better so as not to allow hecklers an opening to come
after you. In my case I took too much time in executing a move which
allows the heckler to second-guess the bottom card and that creates
a opening for him to attack.

Finally learn your lessons and move on.

Wow this is a very good thread. Alot of interesting infos here. Regarding the hecklers problem, i myself realised normally people who asked you to show them more magic, new trick or etc, they would be obedient auidence rather than trying to spot your mistake. At the same time I act humble and tell them it might not work and i just trying out. Sometimes i might reject them at first and when they ask again i then perform. Their concentration will normally be lower cause they think that you might fail. So they tend to be forgiving and therefore auidence will be mostly be cooperative rather than to heckle you.

However if you walk up to them and tell them u want to show them magic, they might think you are cocky and want to show off your skills. These actions will keep them in alert mode. This is when they spot your mistakes and those heckler will demoralise you.

This is my method i used and some of my experiences. Pardon me, i just started for 6 months. I can perform until people think i am very good, and also got heckle by people until I very TL wana slap him/her.

I have a friend whereby I show my tricks, he try to expose my move. Then after chatting with him after the performance, I assume that he have some knowledge on magic. He claim that his friend is learning magic and he see some of his expose move before. At that time he act as if he is very
sincere in learning, and keep begging me to teach. That i teach him DL. I approach by asking whether he knew DL he say roughly know. I assume that he knew and teach him abt DL. But he not only did not follow up the interest, whenever i perform for friends, he will be by the side shouting, "I SAW 2 CARDS LEH". Then I ask him since he know basic, ask him to perform but he will refuse. Really regretted teaching him DL. I assume he know the method but actually he knew nothing. My biggest mistake until now.

Advice for you people, there are always heckler around. Just be yourself. Don't be affect by these people. So what people know the secrets. The art to performing magic is to let peple amazed and appreciate what we do. I still enjoy seeing magicians performing cups and balls routine, linking rings. Try to come out something special to your routine and people will remember you for that. Try to be that special one.

Hi i'm new here but thanks, once again, for good topics where newbies like me can learn.

Personally i have encountered one tough customer and she's my close friend. Basically she was a grabby person and it made showing stuff like the ACR very diffcult. I was lucky that it was a group outing though as after that one grabby incident, i stopped doing stuff to her but turned my focus on my others friends who really enjoyed what i did (stuff i learned from CC1 and St*g***a)!!! The good thing was, she is also a spectator, just not an active participant so in the end, everyone was entertained. yay!

In response to Fabregas about teaching friends:
I've also performed for some of my close army friends whom i meet up often to watch football in pubs and fortunately they were thoroughly entertained to the point that they were chanting 'teach me teach me!' However i never ever ever ever reveal the DL. I only showed them mechanics grip, told them how important this grip is in card magic and they were bored already. I thought this was a good way to filter potential learner of the arts from curious laymen who just want to know-it-all.

my 2 cents.

I think strong anti-heckler routines for cards would be MD effects.

Or possibly effects with an unexpected ending or a kicker.

If it still doesn't help, throw the cards aside and do a coins routine or something that is non-cards.

1) Use an E.T and zap the hell out of them
2) Perform Russian Roulette with his hands over the cups and dare him to make the trick fail
3) Make yourself vanish

Ok seriously if I met a heckler, I will just ask him to perform. Just toss the deck to him after you did a fancy 5 packet cut. 90% of the time the heckler will not perform and will keep quite for the rest of your show.

10% of the time the heckler will really perform. Then I will just sit back and enjoy the show. You don't need to heckle the guy, leave the job to other audiences. 90% of the time he will end up embarrassing himself with his lame trick. Even if he perform something good, I'll perform a stronger version of his effect.

If the guy really perform so well that he took your whole show, just go back home and practice more.