Ya, I just visited Mac, and I notice the TV showing card tricks again. But this time, it really flame me off. The magician is teaching CARD WARP for $2 dollars. LOL!!

If its some self working trick, that will be still okie, but card warp is consider a marketed effect and he teaching it for $2 dollar.

Maybe someone from the Magic Industry can do a say about this? Like the type of magic to teach than using marketed effect.

ok i guess they will be teaching classic F***e soon? That is MY predicion... I rememeber from the post posted long time ago there was a guy who is some how connected with Mac? Maybe he can help

They will never teach the classic f**ce. Its not selfworking and inherently difficult to do well.

I don't think anyone holds the right to card warp (Ellusionist's Voodo Zone?). And, one can probably find the explanation of such things on Youtube.

By the way, don't get so worked up about this kinda thing. In my opinion, it will probably backfire. Ignore it and it will go. Continue working on your magic. Just avoid performing effects they expose.

Lol, when i read the title, i thought you were flaming Mac--->the USPCC dealer on our forums under the nick: Illusionist. =P

Oh anyway back to topic, i have no idea why macs is selling magic? don't they make enough selling happy meals?

P.S. i love their apple pie!! XD

Anyone watched the film 'Fast Food Nation'?

You will detest Mac even more.

Card Warp is not a simple or just a trick effect. It hit people like never before. And it always works.

And also, its a good street effect if I never mention it before. So I don't think they should market that effect under $2 dollar.

My friend haunted me for 1 year for that effect until he got some books and know how it works. So I can say that if you do it well, people wont know even an inch of how it works.

Oh and Super size me too!! I remember some dude from it who is a real Big Mac fan. Apparently he bought a lot of them upon receiving his paycheck or something. So the plot is about some dude who decides to go on an all Macdonald's diet for 1 month. Yeps, i think he described a pain in his penis if i'm not wrong. :wacko: yeah

Oh and how could they expose card wrap? it's cool!! i used to carry it around in my wallet. Now i just carry more cash. :lol:

Aaron

what you could do is contact the creator of the card warp and inform him about it and include a copy of the said advertistment (I haven't seen the ad for it so I don't know).

Or else, write to Macdonalds (courtesously, of course) and ask them if they have permission to sell this effect and c.c. the mail/email to the creator of the card warp.

Jeff, I highly agree with you. But I will actually prefer if SAM or IBM, the big brothers of Magic in Singapore will write something up to Mac to stop them, because they are more established and recognized, and I highly think that the magician that advertised the effect know SAM or IBM.

So will have more pressure than us writing in, and of course forwarding the mail to the original creator of the effect. Unless the copyright license is over for that effect, or else they cannot just market it out like that.

Secondly, I doubt they will credit the creator of this effect. Thanks.

Yayy.. They'll surely release a force of some kind for 2 bucks soon.

What can we do?

Sit back and watch the magic community die in Singapore.

If not?

Do something else then.

For now, we can write to Macs and murder Quinn Cher.

Honestly, I don't like him. Someone please tell him to use bikes intead of Tallys.

It's a him? I thought "he" looked tomboy.

How about a boycott ?


We petition to stop mac from exposing.

Its not worth the effort, and might even give the public a false impression of magic. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is ignore it. Personally, I also don't want this to happen, and Card Warp is an excellent effect, too.

Also, I don't think anyone holds the intellectual rights exclusively to Card Warp. In fact, all those crediting and citings are all ethics that magicians uphold. Mac Donalds ("Mac" sounds like Apple Computer) is not a magic society and they probably don't care, nor are they breaking the law. Correct me if I am wrong.

Here is a wikipedia entry on Intellectual Rights to magic method which may be of interest.

Btw, magic is very unlikely to die from exposure. It's dooms day prophecy. Of course we are not going to sit back. Go out and perform more, and educate your friends, family, the public, etc :D

This is sad.


I'm gonna have to give up magic since Macdonald's exposed the one and only trick I know.

I may have to start all over and find a new way to make a living. Probably open a restaurant called MaxDonald's and sell Big Max, Max Chickens, Chicken MaxNuggets, and our very own 0.112 Kilogrammers with cheese.

:(

Someone already open a Kopitiam called Starstrucks.

I'll have a clown too. Roland Maxdonalds.

He'll look like Max Maven with Donald Trump's hairdo and wear big shoes.

Hmmm... think we all should learn Cyril's Burger Trick. Don't ever think MacDonald will let you learn that.

Max looks like Max because of his wicked hairstyle!!! HaHa :D SO don't change that.

Too bad, muscleaxl, Mac has already expose that (or a very similar looking 1. Well, at least it is not in Singapore, so don't be mad.)

Come on people, why are you all so sad just for such small little fuss? Haiz. No wonder the Singapore Magic scene is going down. (Nah, just joking.)

Lets all not eat mac anymore, but i don't think it matter.

joke aside

Can we ask somebody who can talk to mac for us(singapore magician)

This is my personal opinion.

Mac should stop this kind of "selling magic" to entertain their dine in customer. If Mac make magic toy (with Mac logo or any cute little magic toy) as a gift with their kids meal is fine because this is a way to let kids to have a first hand into magic (well, we all too started long time ago by some simple magic tricks). But the selling of the secret of professional trick (in this case, magic warp) is a little too much. In fact, this is a real case, my friend was teasing me that day, "haha... now i know how u do it..." As a magician, this is not really funny :)

Just my opinion..

SERIOUSLY!!!

I think mac is going too far this time. I agree that they should have earned enough money by selling happy meals so much that they can donate 5cents for each meal. And whats more, they can buy a plasma screen or even two to just put in the restaurant to show some lame nat. geo programs. Save up those money and they would not turn into selling magic.

And for 1 more thing. Any one knows who is the guy doing the trick? The one everytime wear black shirt. He is a disgrace man and don even have the right to learn magic. Bet he does earn profits for just showing the tricks. If one day i see him outside i confirm pull him to one corner and bash him up till it is like my mama's order!!


gL`-

OMG! just got back from macs. Ate 2 big macs.

Now this dude is teaching something called A Go Go coin, which is basically a guess-which-hand-is-the-coin-in + coin vainsh + coin reappearance effect. And it's worth $2? I don't do coins myself but i know that effect is definitely worth a whole lot more.

=(

Hmm, this guy has made more enemies than the amount of money made by Mac.

Some one tell me this: Magic is filled with copycats who only have ideas once they see someone else do something. This isn't a new phenomenon, it has been going on for centuries. These so called magicians have no understanding of the creative process. To them someone else's ideas are better than no ideas.

In recent years this lack of originality has reached greater heights. The magic community seems to think it is okay to appropriate the work of others so long as credit is given. Some one isn't talking about getting permission from the creator, just acknowledging that material is based on the work of others. This practice has become so widespread that these copycats now criticise those who don't say who they took the ideas from.

This situation exists because too few magicians understand the difference between effect and method. A great effect is the result of creative genius. Effects aren't just there. Someone has to think them up. And that someone deserves to own his or her creativity in the same way a story or song is owned by whoever created it.

As for method, usually the original method of an effect is also an act of creativity. But once the effect has come into being even the creator will admit that there are many wants to produce the effect. This is what the more sophisticated copycats rely on. Not being creative themselves, they just vary the method and by some rather convoluted logic think their new method gives them the right to the effect.

Spending time with professional magicians you'll often hear someone ask, "Is that his?" or "Is that her's?" Many professional magicians know how difficult the creative process can be and try to avoid stealing from others in the hope that when they produce something original it won't immediately be appropriated.

Unfortunately many magicians are unaware they are doing someone else's act and when this is pointed out are unable to understand what's wrong with using other people's material. The truth is that if these magicians had to come up with their own magic they'd have no act at all.

Did mac have a Burger Trick? I didn't know that.

Anyway, back to the topic, I don't think it's Mac's fault. It's really the guy who "teaches" the trick for $2. Integrity is easily compromised by $$$. If magicians don't want to teach, Mac also can't do anything.

I feel that although mac is at fault allowing this to happen, but the main cost shouldnt be on them, i guess before they proceed with the promotion, they asked that magician about the IP and Copyright stuff, definitely even if mac give him the deal to sell tricks, he should know whats the right thing to do, i would rather condemn that guy then macchicken

Wow...

What a dispute we have here.

"Macs sucks!" "Stop eating at Mac!" "We hate Quinn Cher!" "Who's that guy? He sucks!" "A go go coin is crap!" "stop exposing card warp!" "man, filet-o-fish is going DOWN."

Yeah, we all as the apparently "good guy" magicians should be sitting in front of our computer, complaining away. We should be doing that! Come on, why waste time actually practising and enhancing your own magic, going out there in the real world and amaze/entertain/astonish more people?

Just complain! Come on, everybody! We should just complain and not take any proactive actions! That's the spirit! We all should be swearing at Macdonald's and Quinn Cher for exposing CARD WARP! Oh my!

Let us continue complaining and cursing and getting upset over Quinn Cher! Yay! Let us waste time instead of performing for more people and letting more people appreciate magic! Let us not perform for people and educate them why magic shouldn't be exposed! Instead, just post all of your angry thoughts on an online forum!

Hooray!

- harapan. magic!

Superbly well said, Harapan!!! B)
Right on the spot.

I'm perplexed.

Nobody wants to even write to Macdonalds to voice your grieviances?
Even if nothing is achieved, what could you stand to lose? I would, but I am not from Singapore, nor do I have any details. What would it cost me, a paper, an envelope and a stamp.

I don't think its wrong for people to get upset. You have a right to get upset when the craft you love is cheapened.

Best of luck people.

Go heck the guy la

Bloody Hell!!!

That guy's name is quinn cher? See him outside confirm he die. Curse him till his grave!!!

gL`-

I think its pretty mean to say that all of us will only complain and wont do anything about it. Wasting time on this online forum.

Seriously I wanted to do something about it, just writing a feedback to it wont do much help to stop them from doing that.

The thing is that, there are bigger organizations out there, like SAM, IBM, or local popular Magician like JC Sum, that have more power to fight against Mac. No, I not saying JC Sum should complain to Mac, he is a busy man, and if he willing to help, that will be great.

But small peanuts like us, is simply useless when you write a letter complaining to Mac.

First, I really hope that those magic body can do something about it. Secondly, an online petition might help.

Last but not least, I going to write a feedback to Mac and see what can be done.

Larry

Actually, would we be flaming Evergreen for selling POW magic as well? Yes I agree that McDonald's is spoiling the market but ultimately we cannot blame them that they are looking at the situation from a marketing point of view instead of a magician's point of view.

Just my 2 cents worth :)

Marketing magic is something very appealing to the public after all. And furthermore for just measly 2 bucks.

But hey, look on the brighter side. Just take it as an free promotion to spread the art of magic, introducing the public to it. :l

But teaching stuff like card warp doesn't seem right at all. It would have been much better if it teaches basics and simpler tricks instead.

I just when to mac today. There was no body looking at that gaint plasm TV anyway i do not think anyone would watch that and even if they would PAY for it . People in Singapore will not waste money on this kind of thing,people who would buy it will be teenager who wan to heck magician tricks.(showoff) Right now i really how the amount magician in singapore will become lesser because there 1/2 of singapore is doing magic what is a point for us to do it? What do big shot magician in Singapore do for a living, i say we put a stop to this. STOP mac from exposing trick, i myself is going to write a feedback letter to mac. i hope big brother in Singapore magic put a stop to this.

U.S. corporate mailing address is:
McDonald’s Corporation
2111 McDonald's Dr
Oak Brook, IL 60523

Here’s my two cents on the subject.

Firstly, it is highly unlikely that Mac’s has anything got to do with the production or decision to have the magic content on the screens. The TVs in Macs are owned, installed and managed by a 3rd party media company. Most likely, they work with Macs on a revenue sharing basis where a percentage of advertising, SMS votes, sign-ups etc, go to Macs for allowing the TVs to be installed in their outlets. This is my educated guess and NOT a fact as this is a common business model for this type of media.

Thus, it is the media company, not Macs, that spearheads all content and ads. Macs marketing department will only vet through the content to ensure it is appropriate family-friendly content and there is no conflict with Mac’s corporate vision or social responsibility.

On Quinn’s part, I personally see no ethical issue with teaching magic effects for a fee (regardless what the fee is). In this case, the ‘fee’ of $2 is unlikely to be set by Quinn, but rather by the media company. Quinn is simply part of a creative marketing effort that uses magic to generate revenue. If the issue is that magic should never be used for commercial gain, then, that is a separate issue altogether and not the issue to be discussed.

If the magic presented seems short or edited badly that affects the presentation of the magic, this also no fault’s of Quinn’s as I do not think he has any control over production or post-production (My guess again, NOT fact).

The ethical issue at hand is whether he has the right to teach the specific effects that are used. In the case of Card Warp, invented by Roy Walton and publishing rights are still reserved with whomever owns the rights to his material, Quinn should not be teaching this if he did not first seek out the rights holder. If he did and has permission, there is no issue. If he did not, then there is a problem.

If he came up with an alternative method such as pasting half a card onto the back of the playing card that replicates the effect of Card Warp and credits the originator Roy Walton in the teaching of the effect, I personally think it is ok and the ethical thing to do as well.

If he comes up with totally original magic/ methods and chooses to teach them, that is also perfectly fine. The only issue will be to hope that he presents the magic in a way that it dignifies the art and not condescends it.

Of course, there is so much duplication in magic it will be possible to nick-pick and find fault with whatever is taught. However, if due diligence and crediting is evident, then I think we should applaud and support the effort. But, if neither are done, then Quinn has done the magic art a disservice.


LarryDK, thanks for your vote of confidence but the real solution is really not do to anything at all.

If magicians in the US had not created such an uproar to the Masked Magician’s first special and created hype, publicity and controversy, there may not have been the subsequent 4 specials.

As mentioned, Macdonald’s most likely had no part to play in the decision to have magic effects taught. By bringing up the significance of the magic effects taught, this might cause their marketing dept to take interest and use this to their advantage and against us. They might even ‘order up’ the media company to have Quinn produce 20 more tricks to teach for a fee. Resulting in even more undesirable 'sharing' of magic.

Here is the real solution: Each and every magic enthusiast and magician who reads this should focus on improving your art and doing your part when it comes to showcasing your magic to the general public. The higher the quality of magic presented on the local level will raise the local perception tremendously. The good news is that it is a fact that local magic is generally perceived at a higher level in the industry than it was 10 years ago. Sure, there is still a lot of bad magic going on, but the general standard is improving.

The art is still being raped, taken advantaged of, pirated and exploited by ‘magicians’, but that has happened all along. Greed for attention, popularity and money has distracted some magicians from their original pure intentions, but magicians are still human. I’m in no way condoning them or their actions/ attitudes. I’m merely suggesting that the solution to do justice to the art starts with YOURSELF and making YOUR good magic more prominent than ‘undesirable’ magic that others may be presenting.

Best,

J C

Jcsum,

Thanks for bringing a clearer picture to this matter.
While I agree with you on the "improving your own standard" of magic bit, it really saddens me when magicians belittle the very secrets of the very same magic they work so hard to try to present to the public.

As for the comparisons between the linking rings brought up by other forumites here that they are still entertaining despite everyone knowing the secret. The difference is people reckonize the dexterity and effort involved in performing the rings WELL.
Just like in juggling, just like in flourishing and even tap dancing. Fast hands, fast feet, beautiful choreography...etc.

But give away the secret of the coin bite, pen through dollar, or a simple trick like the car warp where the secret is almost self working, what else is there?

Maybe we are powerless to stop exposure, but I really wish everyone reading this would respect the secrets better. After all, we didn't create them. Secrets are what makes us magicians or in my case, magic hobbyists, and not just any other kind of entertainer, which is still great, or maybe even better, but still not a magician.

Hi Jeff,

While I empathize and agree that secrets should be respected. The fact is that preaching to people who don't is fruitless. While the 'secret' is a large part of magic deception, it is still only one component of the overall magic experience for a spectator. If one does magic commercially, then there are even more things that make up the 'magic' performance package.

My point is to not bog yourself down with situations that cannot be resolved with much progress. Instead, spend time and effort and making your good magic more prominent.

When you achieve increasing success with making your good magic stand out, this type of 'exposure' will not affect you as a magician anymore. While it may still affect the art in general, your prominent good magic will do more good than the exposre can do bad. Thus, the art is still raised in the bigger scheme of things.

We all know the people who exploit the art, pirate items, take advantage in intellectual property rights loopholes to pirate, try to justify deceptive tactics with excuses, underhandedly use on others' ignorance or good faith for personal prominence etc... but this will never end. The world is fair. These individuals might enjoy moderate success for now but all 'good' things come to an end and they will be their own downfall. Rest assured, they will never be one of the greats of magic...

Inform innocent or ignorant individuals of such people and set the example yourself to show what good magic, ethics and being a good magician is.

Best,

J C

Thanks JC for clearing the air.

I actually agree with what JC mentioned. Well, who knows who's fault is it anyway.

So I think JC made a good stand and point of opinion regarding this issue as he have been working with the media company also.

So lets pray hard that the magician is what we deem, a true magician that hold on to his code and us, as magicians, selling ourself more towards making good magic than just magic.

:)

I suppose the reason to do the $2 thingy is to try to attract attention so as to attract advertisers. They need people to call in (or SMS) is so that they can tracj the response.

I think JC's Magic In Motion is a good idea if they want to use magic. No need for exposure, and same thing they can sms in to maybe win in a lucky draw or something to track the result.