Hey, just my.. 2 cents worth.

I've often seen many youths who are new to magic,
and are ecstatic over their new effects or sleights.

As a result when they show it to a spectator,
they focus so much on the "completion" of the effect they never pay attention to the showmanship aspect of magic.

Is this a growing trend among new magicians nowadays?
It's really sad to imagine that people could merely consider magic as "the knowledge of knowing the secret to a trick" rather than "Magic as an art."

I'm not making a subjective statement here,
but upon witnessing it at a local magic shop I was a tad disappointed.

I'm just hoping that we'll all take magic seriously not to impress,
but sincerely to entertain and to make people "believe" in magic.

With the right presentation, subtleties and such...
simple tricks can be brought to higher levels!

hope this encouraged someone out there or helped :)

R™

Hmm, not all magicians are the same. Some are just magic enthusiasts, some are magic hobbyist, some are magic secret collectors, some are amateur, some are professionals. You can't expect everyone to take it seriously. Some will be happy to stay the way they are.

But it is important that one knows what role one is in, and don't mistake themselves to be in another role which they are apparently not.

So, I suppose you are directing this thought to those who thinks of taking the art seriously. :!!:

Looks like our new addition to SMC must be very good in entertaining with magic. Maybe you can share your skill and presentation with the rest of the not so good.

Uncle Bob

Hmm.. actually most newbies (in magic) are like that, including me when I first started.

Only after joining SMC (this is not a sales pitch) and listening to magicians better than me (there are many!!) did I start to look into presentation of my routines. So proper guidance and education would be the solution to the "problem" (if I can call it a problem).

So yes, come and mingle with us at our gatherings and share your stuff with each other and maybe to influence the young ones towards the bright side..!!

I agree...

when I first started I guess I paid attention to the wrong things as well.
But it was only after wondering why some people can do the same effect,
but get different reactions that got me wondering.

In the end, I made a conscious effort to prepare and take things slow...
Especially since I do mainly Street Magic.

On the streets or on campus, people are usually on the go...
So a quick min of hard hitting effects with the right pace usually blows them away.

Would be glad to share with the younger ones!

But I wouldn't consider myself that old as well ya? :)



R™


P.S:

Are there any DVDs that are in the market that covers showmanship and presentation particularly targeted towards street magic?

Mod's note: Post edited. Please do not advertise what you are working on. When you say you are not trying to advertise, your posts are actually trying to create awareness which is essentially advertising. You can do it when you reach the required post count. Disguising ads in posts is not the way we do things here. This is the second time I've edited your "advertisement".

What kind of street magic are you referring to? TV Street Magic that David Blaine does or the traditional street performing?

As far as busking is concerned, there's a 3 DVD set by Cellini called The Art of Street Performing that is very very comprehensive (Pricey but well worth it). There's also Crowdpuller, a 2 DVD set by Peter Wardell that has received pretty good reviews.

I'm referring to Street Magic...
Referring something more towards Blaine style stuff.
Not street performing...

almost fundamentally different.

Any DVDs on Street Magic showmanship or analysis out there?

R™

Honestly, if we're talking about showmanship and street magic, I think Ellusionist has done a pretty decent job covering most of the angles already. Brad Christian did a very comprehensive and commendable job in Kard Klub (i think it's the one that teaches the 2 CM effect). I seriously doubt that many of the more contemporary DVDs will come close to his attention to detail.

But of course, I'm not qualified to comment; maybe I need to create my own DVD before I talk about matters that are beyond my grasp. Or better yet, publish another magic book to add to the clutter of trash in the market and write about something I know nothing about. Hey, that's just me. :P

Shade

Street Magic but not performing on the street. I am confused.
Isn't Blaine performed his effects on the street?

As what Shade has mentioned. There are so many trash in the magic market and hope something extraordinary new and original.

Many people have asked me whether I have any own magic creation. My answer is: I have not finished learning what were invented.

When I started magic some 30 years ago, I am taught that there are only 3 categories in magic. Like; STAGE, PARLOR AND CLOSEUP. Maybe in today's magic scenes, many things have changed. However, we still need a DOUBLE AND ELMSLEY.

Illusionist is a term meant for magicians doing Stage magic with big props. The term Street Magic is to cash in on Blaine's popular TV specials.

Sorry to go off topic.

Showmanship is acquired through countless performances and experiences. The bottom line is to make your audience feel good and be entertained. Not to show them that I can do this and you cannot. Speak like your normal self.

When you get applauds during your act, it does not mean you are good. They may do it out of sympathy.

Doc Eason's Bar Magic dvds, have many do's and don'ts and I strongly believe what he meant in putting up a good and entertaining act.

Uncle Bob

Just to set the record straight, Street Magic has always been used to refer to street performing/busking until Blaine came out with his Street Magic TV Specials. In the sense, Blaine's label of Street Magic is a misnomer because it is really just TV magic on the streets and is nothing close to what true Street Magic is about.

i agree with Icy, i am just a hobbyist in magic, i do magic for fun but i do respect Reuben_Wong point of view. :lol:

every one who perform magic know well about important on showmanship and not everyone are good actor, but i beleive all are learning like what Bob Chua written:Many people have asked him whether he have any of his own magic creation. his answer is: he have not finished learning what were invented. :P

so i guess let enjoy what we are doing and respect what other do. B)

Magic is something that would require simply more presention and showmanship in order to get the point across. Think about it, try doing your favorite effect for someone by without speaking or presenting. I honestly believe you will not get a reaction, simply because there is zero interaction witht the audience.

Magic is something that, I believe, is made of 2 parts. Skill (abt 30%) and Presentation (abt 70%).

That's why different magicians always have a slightly different way of performing the same trick / effect. That would have to boil down to the performer's character and personality, just like what Uncle Bob mention, simply be yourself.

Skill wise, there is nothing to talk about. It is just sheer determination and hours and hours of practice.

Howeer, in terms of presentation and showmanship. The more you perform for people and the more inter-personal relationship skills that you acquire, I believe that your showmanship will slowly improve.

As for DVDs on showmanship, I seriously doubt there are any. And the only reason that I can think of is, showmanship is simply dependent on the performer.

My 2 cents!

dry_gin

P.S. At the end of it all, if you are still very muxh interested in improving your showmanship qualities, maybe you can try Mediacorp or FLY entertainment for courses!

I think books would be far superior as a medium in discussing a topic like showmanship. Vidoes are more visual based, so its better for sleights.

I am not too sure I agree with that statement about books being a better medium for teaching showmanship. Watching a DVD that teaches on different presentation or showmanship is better because there are aspects in a performance that cannot be explained in a book. For me at least, I would say that a lot of the presentation skills or ideas come from watching how other magicians perform different variations of the same effect and then learning from their individual strengths and putting something that suits your style. Everything that is written in a book can be explained in a DVD, but not everything seen in a DVD can be explained in a book. E.g. angles, the way your hand tilt in a certain way for different sleights, etc. Description from books are limited and each reader might percept the information slightly differently. With a DVD, the teacher is able to demostrate exactly what he is trying to teach. For example, a couple of months back, I was watching Derren Brown perform some of his mind reading effects, and even though He did not teach the effects in the DVD, I was able to see how he use psychological subtities at various points, the verbal pauses he would make, the misdirection and delivery of the platter, etc. If I was just to read this from a book, I would not have absorbed as much as I did.

Just echoing some of the points brought up by some others within this topic:

- My personal view is that showmanship is in some ways closely tied to one's personality. Some people are just naturally better 'showmen' compared to others by virtue of their colourful or lively personality traits. These people have a slight advantage or head start in the sense that they might be more expressive, or are able to communicate or establish rapport better.

- Next is where we come to experiential learning. Learning from experiences of performing will help to shape and hone one's showmanship. One can then better harness one's own personality traits in order to achieve better results when performing. If one feels that he or she might be facing some problems with expressing or communicating effectively, there are always courses such as drama/acting, effective communication, or even public speaking which to some extent will help to develop certain useful skills or qualities that can be applied to showmanship.

- Reading books or watching videos will provide knowledge on the subject-matter, but it is only through application (performing to others) that one will better internalise this knowledge and improve from the process of experiential learning.

Adrian Lee

Adrian summed it up very well. Totally agree with what he says.

I think both books and videos have its pros. Videos give us a presentation to emulate and learn from while books give us the foundation on building and developing good showmanship.

I think when we first start out, videos are very helpful as it gives us a presentation to use and learn from initially. Books will then help by teaching us how to script and reflect upon each performance so that we can make the most out of experiential learning. I believe that it is key for us to make a review and reflect upon each performance we make.

A good mix of both will really help to speed up the learning curve. Ultimately though, like what Adrian pointed out, the best way to develop showmanship is by performing.

In my opinion, words tend to express showmanship better. Books like Pure effect was an eye opener to me because it offers a very detailed and perhaps unconventional view of most presentations.

In fact books like strong magic too covers many intricate details of what we would call, showmanship.

As for videos, it would be dull watching someone telling you about how to be a better performer isnt it?

I agree with you, joeltay. "A picture contains a thousand words." Naturally it contains A LOT more information than books. But this is where TOO MUCH is bad. For it encourage people to mimic what they see, which is shown in such exact detail. NOT just moves, even performance style, ways of speaking, presentations, etc. I can distinctively remember how, a few years ago, I actually mimicked a variety of performer I see on video, (one of them being Sankey). Thinking back, I feel horribly disgusted. :wacko:

Since it contains such exact and detailed teaching, learning sleights from video would be very good. As you have mentioned yourself - angles. However, for subject like showmanship, it cannot be learned through video. Showmanship needs the active participation of the learner, you need to use your brain and think. Books force you to do that because it gives only the essential details and leave others for you to fill up. Learning form videos on the other had, are more passive, since you only need to watch, listen and mimic. Not a good way to improve your showmanship, in my humble opinion.

Sankey? Of all persons! Haha. :ph43r: Might have to shine that bald head to mimic him. ;)

:off:

Showmanship is defintely important. Reading books and watching Videos can only gain you the knowledge on how to present well but utimately it need performances after performances for you to review what can be improved and do better next time. You may learn a lot from all resources but if there are no practical performances on your side showmanship won't improved. Perform and perform make you better each time.

Oh my, I'm sorry about the advertising thingie.
Sincerest apologies to all!

Yup, I do believe its easier to learn as your perform.
In fact most of the time experiences are gained through performances right?

but comparing books to DVDs, I'd rather have a DVD to see which angles actually work.
Sometimes words are not enough to envision what we imagine.

Additionally, it's really great to hear the points raised about showmanship here.
I've been off doing alot of research as well too,
so I thank all for the recommendations!

The Mediacorp one however is rather expensive, and their program is more suited for the entertainer that handles bigger crowds.

I was reviewing some of my old DVDs recently,
And I realized alot of Ellusionist products emphasis alot on Showmanship.
They always mention to go slow, take your time to slowly reveal that magical moment... etc etc.

R™