Fellow Singaporean magi:

I haven't been on these forums for quite some time already, and now I am coming back. While this is not anything to celebrate or cry about, I would just like to say a few things...

Firstly, I'm sorry. I apologize to everyone here. Why am I apologizing? I'll explain.

The reason why I left the SMC forums was, honestly, I felt disgusted with some attitudes I found prevalent in these forums. Commonly referred to as the "magic noob" attitude, I felt some people on these forums are just "talk big" when they don't actually have true substance. They may be people who just started magic a few weeks ago and talk as if they are a veteran on the magic scene. Plus, I felt there were many on SMC who are (sorry to be so streotyping) 'E' fanboys who are often immature and get hyped over everything, especially 'E' products.

Most of all, I left because I felt some of my ideas/theories/beliefs in magic clash with many people here. I felt constrained when my views went against the flow, and everyone would just be saying the same thing, conforming to the usual stigmas while I tried to think about a different approach towards an issue in magic.

I don't know, but I didn't feel home. Too many "noobs", not enough reasons for me to stay on. And so I left.

The reason I am now back is:

Recently, if you all have been following the magic trend, there's a new magic site called Theory 11 (T11), set up by some really awesome magicians - Lee Asher, the Buck twins, Aaron Fisher and even Chris Kenner himself, and more. I went there, and again, I was SO disgusted by how many "noobs" there were on that site. Immature kids were EVERYWHERE on that site... I felt so angry with T11 that I wrote an email to Lee Asher, stating some of my concerns for T11. T11 is a site meant to build better magicians - I am afraid that the "bad magic culture" would overwhelm T11's ideals and become another site, breeding kids who expose effects on Youtube, not respecting magic, not performing properly etc.

But then I realised: I shouldn't be complaining. Instead of staying in my elitist bubble, distancing myself from the "noobs", I should be using my ideas, my experience and my magic to help them. I am not saying I am very good or very experienced - I am just a 17 yr old magician, doing magic for about 5-7 years. But I believe I have the maturity and the right mindset to help the "noobs" on the right path. It's exactly because I am young, that's why I can be the bridge between the "noobs" and the "pros". And so, I decided to stop being angry with T11 and just chip in and help out on the T11 forums.

And thus, I thought of SMC. I thought: if I am going to help T11, why not help SMC? SMC has its problematic areas, and has its problematic people. Plus, if I chip in, who knows, I may be able to help the magic scene in Singapore.

Therefore, I have refreshed myself and now, I'm back.

I'm sorry for my previous thoughts about SMC, and how I wanted to abandon this place. But now, I want to help this place in any way I can. I've not been here for a very long time, so please, any kind soul may wish to update me on anything new happening around here?

Thank you for reading.

- harapan. magic!

Nothing new. Rather bored in the NOT SO recent past. Except may be the Legerdemain competiton (which isn't really very interesting). The last interesting post is probably Aloy's post on literary device which is one moth ago with only 1 reply.... Well, SMC is quite dead. Haha, but I am not in the position to complain since I didn't do anything or contribute for quite a while. Haha. <_<

Btw, I am not surprised ur back. ;) , except for posting in exam period?

If you are sincere in helping out the beginners. Stop calling them noobs. Its like calling the blacks, niggers.

I hope you understand what I mean, 17-year-old-pro.

bigbadwolf:

Yes, indeed. Thanks for pointing that out.

However, please note that my referrence to them as "noobs" existed in the past. That was how I referred to them in the PAST. Not now, don't worry.

And yes, I am 17 yrs old, but I am no "pro". But thanks for the compliment.

Thanks.

- harapan. magic!

EDITED: Come to think of it, the word "noob", to my knowledge, stems from the word "newbie", or "new beginner". Anyway, it does sound bad, and I shall refrain from using it.

That's the difference between him and the older people here, we're still under 21, although he was slightly harsh with his words, he meant well, it's like a parent using cane to teach his son good things. And sometimes they say that they hurt more when they cane us, but they are saying it to make themselves feel comfortable. I hope you get what Hara and I meant, stop deceiving ourselves. I think Hara used names because he genuinely felt offended, I will not call a thief skillful if he stole from me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, from all the local performers so far i've seen(but not alot) i think they perform very seriously, not the fun type. They are only the fun type when on the streets, but on stage, they tend to be the serious-wear-a-coat-type.

Noob= beginners= process of learning

Everyone was a noob, and will eventually become a pro if they never give up :P

Regarding about E stuffs , you cant blame them because E is really a source for many of the new magicians to pick up magic... is it a good phenomenon? very subjective

Harapan, i saw many of your contributions in t11, do not give up
magic is an art, art will never die, have hope in it :)

No problem. Just pointing out that certain terms does sound offending.

By the way, it wasn't a compliment.

I have to say i'm kinda impressed you took the effort to write all that Harpen, thanks for that. ^_^

Here's my 2 bits on the matter, not just for you, but for all those who had thought somewhere along the line, "wah...SMC is full of noobs" B) :

You will not believe how many times along the way during these 3 short years that I've been suggested (and sometimes even heavily pressured) to be more strict with SMC's registration process to keep the "arrogant noobs" out of SMC so that we can retain the "quality magicians".
And on my end, I have tried a variety of methods to somehow manage this expectations although not to any wild success so far. Those around since the early days will remember the many different "systems" we have introduced and abandoned along the way. :lol: And I am still trying to find a way of managing these expectations because I do recognise the need for higher quality discussion for more "learned" forumites.
But all along, i have kept steadfast on my stubborn insistance of allowing and KEEPING the "arrogant noobs" in SMC. Even at the cost of losing the "pro" magicians.

Why? Why offend and irritate a key group of good quality magicians who can probably really make SMC resources of much higher quality. And have them possibly "leave" for the sake of some young punks who will probably never appreciate our efforts to keep SMC going or show any gratitude for the assistance they received while they shoot their mouth off with some "expert advice"?

The funny part is, Harapen, for quite a while now, YOU have been one of the "case studies" that i have used to explain myself (ONE OF THE, because there were many many many more ;) ) .
I dunno if you remember this Harapen, but about 2 years ago, when your nick was still PanPanPan, you once "adviced" someone else that your method of dealing with people who guessed your methods is that you will teach them exactly how it is done. :ph43r: And how you, at that time, would tell your friends the methods to some tricks for like $10 each. :ph43r:
I wrote a fairly long post at that time chastising you on your approach which sparked quite a few feedback from other forumites telling you the ills of what you were doing. Shortly after, you assured us that you will stop both these practises.
I am not bringing this up to embarrass you, and I apologise if you do feel that way. But this is just to make my point.

That's right Harpen, believe it or not, you were one of the "arrogant noobs" that people are telling me that I should kick out of SMC. B)
And believe it or not, maybe to a few of the "pros", you may still be one of the "arrogant noob" that we should kick out. :D

But what possible benefit would be achieved if you were kicked from SMC at that time? What benefit would there be to cut these "arrogant noobs" loose? Would that make them better off? Would that make Singapore's magic scene better?

You are a "case study" because later on, you showed that you have progressed in your magic with good posts and contributions to many threads and discussions.
Maybe I cannot say that keeping you in SMC has resulted in you progressing, but I hope at least it helped. Or if nothing else, at least we pressured you to stop the needless exposure with what u were doing at that time. ;)
But this is my point. If we keep them, at least we can extend some peer pressure on them should they deviate due to misguidance. Maybe not all will become better, some will stubborn stay stuck in their ego. But for every one who saw the logic of others, it is worth it!

As mushy as this is gonna sound, it is my heart to keep all the young and learning, regardless of how bad their attitude may be, or how wrong they are in some of their practises. Because it is exactly this group that we can potentially extend the most help to!
Don't hate them for what they are now! Love them for what they can be!

If you dig up some of our older introductions and posts, you will be surprised about how many of the current local "pros" were just starting out not that long ago. And the kind of "noob" questions and comments that they were posting at that time.
A few of these people have, by now, taken on to lambasting SMC to be full of "noobs", by that which they really meant themselves just a short 2 - 3 years ago. :) And some have "left" SMC because they feel they are too "pro" to be hanging out with the "noobs" anymore.

Well, so be it. B)
I have very much come to terms with this aspect of operating SMC. :wub:
Because for every one that saw otherwise and stayed to give the help that they have previously received, I feel it makes it all worth it.
So it's good to have you back Harapen. :)


Don't hate them for what they are now. Love them for what they can be.
:wub:


P.S. Anyways, if I were to start kicking "noobs" out of SMC, I will have to kick myself out too. That would suck.

Well, thank you for noticing that post. ^_^

Now, if YOU have replied that post and maybe add on some of your thoughts, that would make it have TWO replies wouldn't it? ;)
But is it easier to say that nobody replied or that it wasn't worth your time to share your own insights to people who wouldn't understand it?

And I beg to differ on the Legerdemain competition. Unless you took part and won it without me noticing. B)
And the mods and all the contestants put their heart, soul, sweat and blood into it, thank you.

Just that night after the Legerdemain, I "suan" Jonathan for talking so much but never even went to the final (ok, I was just joking with him... I like him as a person even though he 's confused of his sexual orientation :P )

But apparently, there are some people who contribute nothing useful, who don't have the guts to turn up for gatherings, don;t have the guts to take part in competiton but only know how to hide under a nickname and talk big theories which they copied from a book.

My guess is, these people can't perform a simple trick to save their ass.

To all the partipants of the Legerdemain, at least you have the GUTS to take part in the competition unlike some people which I might be tempted to label them as lo *cough" sers...

Remember....

Don't hate them for what they are now. Love them for what they can be.

B)

Sry, I am not saying the competition is not interesting at all. I am just saying its not VERY interesting (in other words, the sky didn't fall down on me). Sry if u get the wrong feeling that I view the competition as utter rubbish because I dun think any magic competition in Singapore is rubbish. And I also noe that the mods have put in all thier blood into it. And I greatly appreciate your effort in pushing magic in the local scene.

But for me personally, magic competition is not the main reason why I would go around in an online forum, although it could be a nice addition. May be I don't like the idea of magic competition in the first place (although there are a lot of good performances), but I don't demean anyone.

Some fun fact on Aloy's thread, which is really interesting (thanks, Aloy): I wonder how many of those 120+ views really read. If you compare Aloy's thread to the other thread, you will probably find a 300+ divergence of viewership. By contrast, topics like In public is quite trivial and not raised for the first or even the second time, and it has 400+ views.

Anyway, SMC is a more active and substantial place 2+ years ago, but this is a pointless statement.

And I have already admit that I am in no position to complain (ABSOLUTELY), so I will shut up and sit at a corner, and perhaps be a loser, to the delight of muscleaxl.

To say the truth, I think I am a loser, too. (not mocking anyone.)

Good luck to you, Harapan. (for exam or watever you are going to do) :>
May be your dream will come true.
Just may be...

Hey guys, there's far too much tension going on here man. Well i suppose that's the way it is with any group or society from time to time. What's impotant now is to remember what binds all of us as one, inspite us being newbies (like me :D ) or even way more experienced and technically skilled magicians here - And that binding force is the love for magic! A forum is just a virtual meeting place for us to contract the space time continuum if u will. :)

Like what aloy said 'Love them for what they can be'. We can't expect everyone to be as ON or as riteous when it comes to magic and techniques can we? But none the less everyone deserves the opportunity to learn AND to change their mindset. With proper guidance and tutelage we might be able to 'turn' a few of these deviants into magicians worth mentioning, something which i myself inspire to be. Even if it is just a handful of them, i believe it's worth it. So let's not stunt the leanring process and suppress potential. Let's instead guide and direct.

So harapan, i commend you for coming back! And maybe you can help me in my learning proccess as well!

P.S.
Aloy and axl, Legerdemain was awesome! Kudos to you guys and the entire organising committee on putting up a great production!

Well, if just 10 of the 120 views read it and found it interesting.
And just 1 person out of that 10 found a way to apply any part of it in an interesting manner, I think it's worth the effort of posting it. B)

But we are :off: here.

I don't think that SMC is just an online forum. It's more than that. Gatherings are organised for members to meet up and learn from each other. Charity events are open for members to volunteer their services as a form of performance exposure. The recent competition served as a great medium for members to take part and work out an act, practice and challenge themselves.

SMC is not Theory11 or Ellusionist. Unlike the online shops which hype and sell products to a largely "new magician" crowd, SMC has provided opportunities for its members to learn. Can you say that T11 or Ellusionist has done the same? Moreover, it has done so by providing this free without any membership costs or requirements thus keeping it very inclusive for all who would like to join. SMC is providing all these, why not use it to the fullest extent?

One cannot blame SMC for the influx of new misguided "magicians" today who are often just seeking the next big hyped up thing. This is not a result of SMC but by other influences. Instead, consider SMC to be the learning and rehabilitation centre for the many new magicians who have been misguided in their ideals.

Take it from me, I have benefitted from SMC in more ways than just an online forum ever could give. I hope this post helps to encourage those who have been disillusioned to see matters in a different light and give their contributions to progress SMC and the magical scene.

Hahahahaha...

Aloy, thanks for the post. It's very well written. And my name is Harapan, not Harapen or Harpen... :)

Come to think of it, I was pretty much of an a$$ when I first joined SMC. I learnt magic from Magic Castle starting from as early as Primary 6 - Secondary 1, and I am in JC1 now. I learnt pretty much in my own world, from those DVDs by Bill Malone, Daryl, David Solomon etc. Really big names.

What happened was this (up to you to believe me): the time I joined SMC was also the time I found out the "commercialised" world of magic. Ellusionist, Penguin and the likes... and it made me very hyped up about magic. In other words, now that I looked back at myself, I was like an "arrogant noob" during that period of time, even though I had learnt magic for a much longer time before that.

But I shouldn't complain... I am quite happy I am used as a "case study" to show how "noobs" can progress. Hooray.

Now, not that I want to be haughty and say "I am matured and I am very good", but I believe I have progressed, and I am capable and also willing to help the "misguided", if you can call them that way... I am in a strange position because like I said, my "noob period" came in the middle of my journey in magic, not at the beginning... I don't know how it helps, but maybe it helps me understand how a "noob" thinks and how we can change and help them.

How will I be helping? I am not sure. I don't have much of a clue yet. Give me time, I'll see how I can contribute.

Aloy, thanks for trusting me.

- harapan. magic!

P.S. bigbadwolf, I know it wasn't a compliment. I could see sarcasm dripping from your words.

Should I reply or not?

Hmm.. Because I might fall into the category that Icy mentioned.

But we getting abit out of hand here, because of the directions that is suppose to target in the replies for this thread. But I thought for a while and wish to support my view on Aloy's stand.

I can honestly say that I haven't been going for any of the outings, or the competitions, etc. Not because of the newbie symptoms that are spreading the whole singapore, but i guess, its because we don't have the best of both world, the world of studying and the world of magic.

So i conclude myself as someone that will respond to thread that I can contribute to the society, and not anyhow blow in and say, "Your DL is exposed" etc.

I mean, in short, I support Aloy's idea, and he indeed, tried alot of ways to make here a better place, thats why there are still so many seniors here that sticks around in the forum, and give their sincere views.

I think, we should clarify ourselves that, all the replies, are all our individual VIEWS, unless you required a comment from us, or else, its up to us to absorb it as helping tool, or a critisim. I think, the phasing of english can make a whole lot of different in your comments to others, which why we stick on the writing better english here also.

No offence to anyone, but this is just my view. :)

Hahaha when i said forum i meant just the forum.. the circle is much more than that of course.. :)

What a big ego! What is the need to announce to everyone
that you are coming back to save the magic world. It was
perfectly fine in whatever condition when you were away.
It's like "look at me, I am good at magic and now
I'm coming to save you noobs from you sinful ways."

Seriously who cares whether you comes or you goes, the
world at large, magic or otherwise will still go on as it should.

Chill. Easy now. :)

I would like to think Harapan's point is that he realises what an elitist snob he has been and this is his "reconciliating confession", rather than a declaration of his messiahship.


Recently weather very hot hor? A lot of temper all over. B)

Aloy, you could be right. But I read between the lines
and I will call a spade, a spade.

LOL

Yup, I'll get kicked out too! :(

I think that it is inevitable to find "arrogant noobs" in magic fourms. You can see them in every magic forum.

Well, it’s much worst if you go read the Ellusionist forums. The fanboys will hype up the E’s product and try their best to bash every single competing product. Trust me; I’m one of the victims of these “arrogant noobs” too. Their tactics are very annoying.

I have no problem with beginners. All of us started out as “noobs” too.

“Arrogant noobs” might be more of a problem, because they are too proud to learn or take advices.

It’s not just “arrogant noobs” you see in magic forums, very often you will see “arrogant elites” too. They will just try their very best to discourage the beginners and even advice them to quit magic.

The good thing is you won’t see a lot of these” arrogant noobs or elites” in SMC. The situation here is much better compared to other magic forums. Take a look at the quotes from other magic forums.

I’ve visited other magic forums, and in my opinion SMC is the most peaceful magic forum. You seldom see members bash the hell out of each other here. Very often you can see the more experience magicians lending a helping hand to the beginners, and you can also see the beginners showing their respect for the experienced members here.

There is no place like home. :)

No need to call a spade a spade cos everyone knows a spade when they see one.. but u know the magic lies in changing a spade into a heart, or a club, or a diamond.. :D

:lol: Good one

Doublelifter : Time will tell, time will tell...

Harapan : So I can expect to see you at the next gathering then? B)

Loads of hostility here... At least my comments generated some discussion. That's good, I would rather have this than a dead thread.

Please believe me that I am sincere and serious. I already stated that I am not "holier-than-thou", I just believe I can contribute to this place rather than be like my old self, all "nah-i'll-mix-with-the-elites-and-hate-the-noobs".

Aloy: Definitely, if I can make it. Tell me when it is.

- harapan. magic!

P.S. For those who went to last year's Shoot Ogawa lecture and this year's Lennart Green lecture, you may have seen me, but didn't know it was me. I was there.