Hi all,

This is an open request for performers who are performing professionally (for money especially) for the public to stop performing pirated effects. Specifically, the Floating Table. Losander is the only authorised and original builder of this mini illusion but it has been ripped off by countless dealers and manufacturers.

There are almost a half dozen performers (all who should know better) who perform pirated versions of this wonderful effect. The worst thing is that they perform it horribly, largely because the prop is badly made.

The reason I know this is because clients have been feedbacking to me about the horrible performances of the act they have seen at family and kids shows.

If you cannot afford to buy the real thing - don't perform it, you are not entitled to. You are hurting the art and educating the public on how this illusion is done.

You have no respect for the art and in return are getting none. I have no qualms in makng these names public but will not do so at this point. You know who you are and I'm requesting you take these pirated tables out of yor act immediately. If needed, I will buy them from you and destroy them myself.

Make a resolution for 2008 and bring some ethics to your work.

Thanks for reading!

J C

P.S.... Those who have the pirated WOWs sold as 'factory' stock - they are fake, pirated and sold by people who have no ethics or understand integrity of the art. What disappoints me is that the person(s) selling it should know better. Sigh.

Well, this is a good discussion topic.

Yes, i agree with some points that you have made. Professional Magicians, which means they are paid to perform, should not use pirated ripped off props. They are considered to be "cheating" the company who paid them.

For magician, for what i know, their main motive is to entertain the audience. Another discussion topic here, if those people who learn magic out of their hobby (exclude paid professional magician) and only perform to their friends and relatives, should they buy the real props? Or any ripped off goods will do. Opinion please.

And another factor people are buying ripped off props is base on the country currency and market. For example, country like china, the people there rarely earn 1k a month(divide by 5 in SGD) and if they want to get some props like WOW, are they able to learn or get? It is just like pirated cds and downloading, it can never be stopped. Of couse, if one can afford the original price, they SHOULD get the original stuffs. This is where integrity comes in.

Just a discussion topic. Not against anyone or anything.
Open to all :)

Hello cl3BerbOi, not very 'cleber' huh.. What do you think? Do you think it is ok to buy rip offs? Or if you are just one that performs purely for friends or family, is it ok to buy pirated DVDs?

Anyway, if you are in china earning 1k RMB a month, i doubt you'd want to learn magic in the first place.

So cannot afford orginal then it's ok to buy fakes?


ZiAn

Hey ChanZian, i am not shooting anyone. So dont shoot me :(
"Hello cl3BerbOi, not very 'cleber' huh.. "

I am just opening a discussion topic. Not making any stand here.
For the 2 points i stated below, the first was to seek for opinion. i used the word "SHOULD". i never say "MUST". Hope you get this clear. Sorry if i didnt make the point clear enough.
For the second point, i am just comparing the scenerio with the present ongoing activities (which is dling and pirated cds). Again, i did not make any stand. And sorry again if i didnt make this point clear enough.

Well, of course, i dont want the world today to buy fake stuffs. If not no one will ever try to invent new stuffs and i am also in the R&D department, i know this best.
So i get your point ChanZian, you have a strong belief in ORIGINAL. SAME FOR ME :). ^5

Anyway thanks for the reserved of cards. =)

These people who perform pirated stuff - calling themselves professional is a JOKE!

The meaning of professional means you're unique in YOUR OWN WAYS, many people do not understand this point but nobody is to be blame, they just did not do up enough research.

Professional also mean they abid by the code of ethic - without needing anyone to remind them because they should know better than the rest. If they should need to use someone else's material, they should credit that person.

Just my two cents worth...

-Alan-

Nice Alan :) As always, thanks for your 2 cents...

cl3BerbOi, I'm sure Zi An wasn't flaming you in any way... it's just that as with J C's post, the context is really about Singapore and when you change the focus to a bigger area like China, it gets more complicated. While he isn't trying to play the role of the magic police here, J C's certainly making a stand.

Something not many magicians dare to do.

I completely hate politics and never care to participate in it though I know I'm practically walking around with daggers and arrows stuck behind my back, but I just want to give my personal view (no names!) anyways...


Everyone has their own take and benchmarks of integrity but true professionals should know better, period ^_^

...Especially if they're looking for respect or proper accreditation, they should lead by example. I think at the end of the day, all of us know in our hearts of hearts if some things are wrong or right.

If you really do love magic, show it.
Ning

Generally, there are countless pirated illusions in the magic communities around the world ever since I started learning magic.

Currently, the most popular ones are Losander's Floating Table, Harbin's Zig Zag, Hindu Basket, Chair Suspension, Origami, Steinmeyer's Modern Art to say a few.

Paul Osborne sells Illusion plans and if you build from it and perform, can it be classified as original or pirated. I just wonder.

I have Steinmeyer's book on the plans for Modern Art and Hospitality Suit. Does owning the book entitles you the rights to build and perform?

Anyway, I am just thinking out loud.

Uncle Bob

Thanks for the responses thus far!

Ethics CAN be a murky area and it is easy to try to blur the lines by giving examples which makes it hard to pin down building rights etc.

I wholeheartedly agree that piracy exists, people who do not know better may buy pirated items, crediting can be difficult etc. It is a issue that can be expounded on till no end.

Just a note on books and the building of illusions - that is a clear issue and is explicitedly stated in the books. The same with my own books. Rights are issue to the owner of the original book to build an illusion themeselves - but note to manufacture.

However...

My post is not about a vague statement of piracy in general. I was very specific in calling out Professionals Performing the Pirated Losander Floating Table.... and I was also referring specifical to the 'professionals' in SG only, although I might not have been clear.

I would like to keep this post confined to this specifically because I think when this issue is seen within these parameters, it is really hard to justify or even hide behind an of a cloud of vague ethic morals.

I think I can also clarify my stand and issue.

I believe in this specific case, it is more than ethics which got me to take this stand publicly. This is the chain reaction of what it happening:

1) Pros buy pirated floating table
2) Pros perform pirated floating table in public
3) Because of the pirated versions, they butcher the effect and do a horrible handling that reveals the method to the audience
4) Public is educated on how this wonderful illusion is done
5) Public is robbed of the amazement and wonder of the effect
6) Public thinks SG magicians are bad since they saw how their tricks were done - And since these are 'pros' at work and they technically represent the best the country has to offer, all other SG magicians must be worst. (Laymen perception)

See, this goes beyond a mere ethical issue. Thus, far, there has been no SG pro who performs the pirated table who has performed the illusion well. It is a floating table- not an animated table that is jerked around....

Once again, I'm offering to buy these obviously pirated tables from these performers and will destroy them in the small bid to help the art in Singapore in this small way.

Ning is right - the pros should know better and must lead by example. There are supposed to have the knowledge, expertise and resources to set the benchmarks of the industry. (I should qualify that I personally think the term 'professional' carries inherent positive values and does not just refer to an individual doing something full-time for a living)

Thanks,

J C

Thanks JC for the detailed comments.

I don't perform illusions and have not seen how well or bad professionals in SG perform the Losander's Floating Table. As for me, I will try to avoid watching SG magicians perform in a public show.

It is always good for SG pros to give justice to the art by performing their effects well. To give the secrets away to lay audience will affect other magicians when they are doing the same act. It can be very disgusting.

To own an original or not is not for me to comment because I have no right to tell them what to do.

Anyway it is always a plus to perform an original effect because when you pay good money your get good props.

Uncle Bob