Here is something from my Uncle Charles again...

We were having teabreak when he asked me if I had watched Mindfreak on TV last night (i didn't). He then went on to describe how Criss Angel vanished a man (I cannot really describe it as I didn't see it myself). I could tell he was very amazed by that one.

I asked him what's so amazing about that, and this was his answers:" It is so impossible... I couldn't think of any explanation for that. At least with cards, you know there must be something that a magician did with the deck. But making a human disappear is really different."

Then he described a book-test effect done by Angel, for which he remarked, "That guy must have some supernatural ability to be able to read minds like that." ( I was soooo tempted to shout the words, "camera effects!!!"... what a loser !!)

Hmm... again, I think to myself, what make Criss Angel so different that he was able to convince people like Uncle Charles that his magic is real? And how can we make close-up magic as REAL as possible w/o the audience thinking we "did" something?

I guess its because, Uncle Charles knows you as a human being and not some gothic person who can do supernatural things. He knows you're like any other person he'd see. So immediately he'd classify your magic as tricks as you didnt start with prestige.

But he doesnt know Criss personally, hence his whole gothic outfit and everything will seem to imply his magic is real.

Thats why its very important for magicians to dress one up or different from normal people to give the impression of real magic.


Or maybe,


You might want to do something else for him other than cards.

Well, guess I've got to put some eye shadow next time...

Anyway, somehow I think the problem is not in the things I use (eg. cards, coins..). He has a very different impression about stage magic and close up. Like just now, he was talking to me about Lawrence Khong and he thought he was fantastic because he could make people disappear (somehow, Uncle Charles has this thing about vanishing people... maybe he was thinking of his wife). But when it comes to close up, he is very very convinced it is all sleight of hands (which it is).

To him, stage magic has a higher degree of impossiblity due to the size of the objects being produce or vanish. Hmm...

My suggestion is to simply move away from tricks that appears to be sleight of hand. Even if you are performing sleight of hand magic, you can always choose your effects wisely so that people do not see it as a trick. Use gimmicks! They help alot.

Bill switch always floor laymen. When I perform at restaurants, my audience often feel it's real magic as it appears impossible, especially when I have my sleeves rolled up.

Effects that makes use of "loops" is something worth considering. I will strongly recommend John George's Valentine's Haunted Pack. This is your cheaper and closer version of Nicholas Einhorn's "spooked". When I performed this at one IBM meeting, a couple of guys thought I was performing "spooked". Haha. But when I do this in restaurants, people think I am a satan!

There are many things you can do so that people don't conclude that what you are doing are tricks. I've used the "dark card" principle in my performances, and laymen just have their jaws wide opened because to them, there was no explanation to it. How can a red card that they've touched and signed turned blue, and then for the climax, ends up in my shoe!!!

Think about it!

If you want your audience to experience real magic, you have to perform "real magic".

You must be sincere in convincing the audience that what you just did is real magic.

Imagine what it is like if you can really change a card, it won't be as simple as saying "CHANGE" and the card just change. For me I will look focus, shake the card for a while, take a breath and paused before turning over the card slowly. I'll act relieved when I noticed the card had changed.

I won't just shout "CHANGE" and say things like "Heh Heh look I just change your card!"

My point is if you treat a magic trick like a "trick", it will always be a trick to the audience. If you believe that what you are doing is real magic, your audience will be able to feel the magic too.

It is not about what tricks you do, but more of how to perform and present the trick. That is when a magic trick becomes real magic.

I've performed magic to University students and they really believe that can do real magic.

I beg to differ. The tricks you do do matter, at least to me. Haha. Presentation definitely counts, but the right effects certainly do help. Cheers!

Yup, I do agree that some tricks in general are easier to make people believe that you are doing real magic.

What I meant is "it is not JUST about what tricks you do, it is more about how you perform and present the trick."

We have one of the toughest jobs in the world. We have to make people believe that something unbelievable has just happened.

Thanks for all your input.

I guess Alex was right when he talked about prestige. I simply cannot establish the kind of awe as a magician for Uncle Charles as he know me too well by now. I am not a "magician" to him, but simply a colleague who knows how to do "magic tricks". Anytime I go up to him to perform magic, he would think I came up with some method to fool him. Sigh... don't know how to overcome that.

Maybe, I can really walk through the walls of my office, it might just convince him... but that would be quite painful.

I think even walking thru walls, will be classed as tricks or illusions.


Dont need to convince the world dude. =)

:off: Where can I find this John George's Valentine?

Take a look at John George's closeup magic dvd. It's definitely worth a look. The other effects in his dvd are alright, pretty unique but seriously the haunted pack effect is the best I've ever seen. The animation is truely solid. Comparing this effect to any of Daniel Garcia's effects in his Guerilla guide to loops dvd, I think Garcia sucks. Haha. Better than those over hyped effects you get from Ellusionist and what not. =)

Thank you for the info. ^_^

http://www.magic.org/store/product_info.php?products_id=4774

This is the one that I am talking about.

I think in such cases of going SERVERELY off topic, I ought to recommend that bigbadwolf PMs ahliShufi instead.

This is a verbal (or rather, written) warning.

Muscleaxl,

He sounds like good candidate for mind reading effects. Try something like that on him and see if the reaction is different. It is unlikely he will attribute mind reading to "sleight of hand".

Hi Axl,
i encounter what you experience all the time with people who know me. If it's any form of consolation, my experiences with my cousins and relatives are that card effects definitely have an impact on people who likes to gamble (play mahjong, dai dee).

Agree with Alexander on prestige (strong magic by ortiz mentioned this too).

If uncle Charles doesnt like your magic, so be it lorh.

It's called melioration, move on to greener pastures...

Honestly, you cannot get too caught up with people that doesn't like your magic. There will be people that love you, there willl be others that hate you. Even the great magicians have their critics.

I believe you are abit sleepy when you post that comment. But, isn't it our job to make people enjoy our magic? We are magicians who perform for people. We are not here to amuse ourselves as we are not clowns. Even clowns are there to amuse others. Please give decent advise to everyone. Thank you.

I feel if people don't like our magic, then there's something wrong with us, the performer. We should try to use the "customer is always right" tagline. For our case, "the audience is always right!".

Never stop and be content with what you already have. Be greedy and strive to improve your magic. Bring smiles to others, and you'll be greatly rewarded. Cheers!

Yes, we should try our best to make people enjoy magic.

I do agree with Shufi that if our audiences don't like our magic, we must be doing something wrong... at least it seems wrong to them.

There are different types of audiences, just like there are different types of magic. Different people will have different taste. We need to know what this group of audience like if you really want them to enjoy our magic.

Take Uncle Charles for example, he seems to hate close up card tricks but love stage magic.

There is no such thing as "the perfect magic trick." The trick may be perfect to some people, but there might be others that don't enjoy the trick at all.

To some people a gentle touch from the one he/she loved might feel more magical than seeing someone taking burgers out of the poster.

ChanZian you are right that we cannot please everyone. There will always be people who don't like our magic. But I think we should at least try our best to make sure the people we are performing to now have a great magical experience.

His uncle really likes magic. Otherwise, he would not be impressed by Criss Angel. Try a different genre of magic like mind reading and see if his reactions are different. Preferably without cards.

Yes, I do agree with Joel Ace and Shufi.


Lets not encourage this think of thinking around here yea? It is called lazy mens thinking according to my professor! :lol:
Its not very positive thinking and neither is it healthy for the magic community to improve. If this kind of thinking sets into our small community of young magicians, their going to be goners.


Lets work harder to a better community.

Thanks for all your input guys.

1. Actually, I understand where ZiAn is coming from. I know him as a friend and he is definitely not a lazy magician, as some of you might misunderstood from his comment.

It is really true that we can't please everybody in the world. Focusing our efforts on people who can appreciate us instead of wasting time on those unappreciative ones can indeed save us a lot of time, effort and a lot of unneccessary heartache. You would agree that there are people who simply won't convert, no matter how.

2. That being said, I also agree 100% that it's our responsibility to improve our magic, improve our presentation, improve our audience management so as to give our audience a "better magical experience" (as mentioned by Ace). No self-respecting magician can stop learning and I am still trying to improve. (even though I'm suppose to be TBMIS... :P )

3. My point in posting here is , besides gathering of ideas, also to share some common problems which some of us might face (ok, maybe only me) and we can all discuss and learn from it. And I'm very glad that many of us are not stingy in giving.

Anyway, keep the ideas coming...

Hey Axl, I didn't mean to imply that ZiAn is lazy, just telling him to be more mindful with his posts, especially when he is not new. Anyway, we are all here to help each other, and for once in a long time, I am seeing some fruitful discussion here. No offence to anyone! Cheers, and keep posting!

It's like someone who doesn't like chinese food. Even if you bring him to the best chinese restaurant, he still wont like it.

Axl, do you think you are a lousy performer? Do you think there is something seriously wrong with the way you present the magic? No right?

If you're talking about one person that doesn't like you, and you start to think that you're a lousy performer, then what happened to the other people that actually enjoyed your magic.

Thinking the way i do does not mean that i am not seeking to improve. But if your mindset is to make everyone love you, then where do you draw the line? When do you stop because you know you simply cannot make everyone love you.

Magician is like musician. Those that are successful know who they are. They understand themselves and know what they are good at. They have their own set of principles and they stick by it.

ZiAn

Don't worry bro, you don't really have to defend yourself.

Anyway, this topic is not about making everyone love you. Haha. It's more about how to change people perception on your magic. Alot of us feel that there are ways to do so, and I for one, just discouraging the giving up attitude. Do you still not understand what some of us are trying to say?

I can see Axl wants to try, and I will encourage him to keep trying. If at the end of the day he choose to give up, then I have no comments, but I know Axl won't give up! All the way bro!

I think the fundemental reason, and very likely that someone may dislike, I emphasis dislike magic that YOU are doing is because, he doesnt like you in the first place.

I'm not saying that axl is a very unlikeable guy but perhaps this charles guy has drilled in the fact that axl is a commoner and wants to 'trick' people into believeing magic and hence the distaste.


And i think for such people, there is no point in trying to make them like your magic. Work on the people who pay you to perform, and not causal friends.

Ok that's fair enough.

So I invite everyone to share their experience here. Share with everyone a time where you met someone who hated your magic, and you actually went out of your way to try to change his perception about you or your magic.

ZiAn

Eh... I am very sure Uncle Charles love me... he buys me coffee, tells me stories and even ask me to help him buy 4D (wow, it actually ryhmes!!). But I might be wrong, maybe he still blamed me for his numbers not coming out. :(

Anyway...

I think Alex is right. To Charles, I'm not a "real" magician (though we all know there is no such thing as real magic), only a young boy who knows a few tricks. If only he knew better... :P

Just to point out I didn't suddenly think I'm lousy just because of one Uncle Charles. I'm not focusing my whole "magic career", so to speak, on his approval. But I do want to improve on getting more people to enjoy my magic.

Just like I cannot convince everybody to invest with me, but I can certainly improve on my percentage of closing. Maybe last time I can only sell to hawkers, but now I can sell to lawyers too. You know, that kind of thing...
:D :lol: :g:

I have performed to people who believed that "magic = tricks". They have seen other magicians performed before and said they knew that they are just doing tricks. Some of them even knew how some of the tricks work. But at the end of my performance, I can convince them that they just witnessed real magic.

As I mentioned before, try to know what your audience like to see. I was performing some card magic in a chalet and things were going smoothly. However, I discovered that 1 or 2 of the girls did not really enjoy the magic. They did not seem to be very impressed. Hence I changed the style of my performance; I started to get more serious and did a mind reading effect. And sure enough the whole room including the 2 girls went crazy after the effect. I followed up with a prediction effect and another ink manipulation effect. At the end of the show, one of them said that I'm the real thing.... just like David Blaine.

I have performed to people who really knew me and strongly believed that there is no way I can do "real magic". I'll just hit them with a strong effect which left them clueless on how it is done. I'll say something like "Ok, you knew that was not real... but there is no logical explanation for what just happened. I mean it is your own 50 cent coin and it just melts through this brand new bottle right infront of your eyes. You are holding on to it now and you find nothing wrong with the bottle. Maybe the only logical explanation is something illogical just happened."

Hopefully this will make them think... or even wonder if they have just seen real magic. Try to free their mind even if it is only for a few seconds. That few seconds may be the only chance that these people get to experience the beauty of magic.

Good job Axl and Ace! I applaud your willingness to up your magic and continue to make more and more people enjoy watching you as much as you enjoy performing for them. That's the way to go!